Dave, it was reported by his daughter, Ellen Fretter (nee Law). The mystery just continues! :)

John, the burial record I have shows 'John Law', who dies of old age, was a slater and last known residence was the workhouse.

John - if I have the correct Joseph (and that's the big question), his children were Eliza, John, Thomas, Emma and Elizabeth. All born in the Horsforth/Kirkstall area.

I did - I clicked on the email link and sent it about an hour ago. I've been having some issues with email since they switched the server. Let me try again.

Just resent - let me know if you don't get it.

Received with thanks........Only one and it went into my spam folder.

Its certainly my chap.

Elaine.

PS

I need you to post the 1841 census you have of the family dates and place of birth (Kirkstall?) as I can not see this family in Sheffield in 1841. I used our transcribed 1841 census to check.

The one that I have for my John is the one I'm questioning Elaine. It's from Leeds and shows Joseph as a cloth dresser. I looked at the 1851 record, which is where I got Joseph's other children from. It also shows Joseph as a cloth dresser. So back to the original dilemma - do I have the right Joseph as John's father. I'll send over both pictures for you to look at.

Jackie, age at death is frequently inaccurate, particularly when the person registering it is not the spouse. Notoriously children do not know the exact age of their parents.
Your John was consistently 2 or 3 years older than his wife. His wife died in 1909 age 73. I assume John registered that so it is likey to be accurate. Therefore John must have been at least 75 in 1909 and therefore at least 77 in 1911 when he died. You should place no reliance on his age at death when reported by his daughter
Also you should consider the possibility that John was actually illegit in 1833-4. In that case the name and occupation of his father would just be a lie to cover his illegitimacy.
Dave

Thanks received them both.

Sooooo the only link to Sheffield is the marriage to Sarah King????


Loosing track here.....LOL.1861 he's in Sheffield and then moves on to Rotherham.

Quick look at the census 1841 he's one year old and in 1851 he's 12 year old.

Born 1839. There is a BMD listing for John Law registered Sep 1839 Leeds 23-362... Do you have that registration cert.?

Elaine.

The correct JohnLaw was father to William Henry B 1855 (deaf and dumb) and Ellen b 1856 and husband to Sarah nee King. Consistently through 1861 to 1901 censuses everyone was born Sheffield. Never Leeds.
Dave

Hi Dave. Yes - I agree, that's the correct John Law and my 3x great grandfather. So I will discount the Leeds record. I see what you say about records being 'doctored' - especially if illegitimacy was and issue. That's what is so frustrating - where was this family in 1841? I do have John's burial records which also states he was 75, but that could be coming from relatives as well.

I do - father was William; mother Mary (formerly Rhodes). William was a stone Mason.

The burial record would take the age from the death cert, which was required by them by law in order to bury him
DAVE

just an idea, not checked myself but could john's baptism be actually in Latin so looking on here for a John law would not find him.

Interesting thought John, I've only come across one other record that was in Latin and it was for a marriage certificate for one of my distant relatives to an Irish gal in the Catholic church. Do you know how I might go about finding a record like that - are they even searchable?

Jackie,


Look over to the left and under Parish Records you will see all the churches we have transcribed including RC ones. The dates we covered are there also.

Elaine in Ottawa.

PS I think we must have a connection if the Laws are Sheffield... Slaters. I can't get to where my Thomas was baptised around 1817. BUT will keep looking would have expected to find him at the Cathedral NOT many churches around at that time.

At the Cathedral on 31st Dec 1834 there was a baptism for a Joseph Law, parents Joseph and hannah Joseph was a slater. Joseph who was baptised was born on 30th Jun 1828.

Could it be possible therfore that John was born before 1828 an illegitimate child of Hannah but took the name Law after they wed. I know it says John was 75 ish when he died but perhaps he was much older then we all think.

John

That's an interesting idea John. This family has been very elusive and it just gets more so. What is interesting to me however - and again, it could all be fabrication - is that the census records for John are pretty consistent on when he was born - sometime between 1834 and 1836. I can't imagine he fibbed about that for decades. I guess it's possible. It's funny because I have other relatives that were born out of wedlock and they owned it, but I suppose it's different in every family. I'll keep searching and I know this one will be top of my list when I finally get to England and can search locally.

I can't thank everyone enough for all of your insights and information. My family predominately ended up in the Sheffield/Rotherham area so if there is every anything I an do to help one of you, please just ask. I'm always willing to share anything I have. Jackie

Morning Jackie,

I was having another look at my tree last night.....

Came up with this idea......

Looking at the NBI.....

I could only find two Joseph Law's who were old enough to have fathered a child 1834-1836.

Joseph Law aged 54 buried at St Paul's in 1837 (DOB 1783?)
Joseph Law aged 45 buried Ecclesfield in 1845 (DOB 1800?)

Its a pity no occupations given.

fingers crossed something jumps out for both of us with the "LAW" line.

Elaine.

Jackie - just a thought. I had plasterers in my family and of course they needed something to fall back on if the weather was too bad for building work, or if trade was slack, and so they sometimes worked in the rolling mills. Is it possible that your slater might have worked in the cloth industry just as a sideline?

Heths