John,

By using the 1841 census index over to the left you can turn Elizabeth up.

Butler, Elizabeth of New Holand, Masbro, Kimberworth. Aged 25 years.
(Piece #1328/5, folio 17b, enumeration district 2.)

By using Family Search which is very helpful you will find more information. All for Free.

Elaine.

John as you have FMP if you look at the two Elizabeth Butlers listed as being in Rotherham you will see that the one in Thorpe is on the same census page as the Willey (hard to read) family with son John a mason.

Coincidence??????

The first Elizabeth is alone aged 25 and the 2nd with a child Samuel as noted before. The first Elizabeth was not born in Yorkshire.


Elaine.

For your information.Rotherham Marriages are in our Database.

Rotherham Parish Church - July 15, 1540 to June 26, 1837

Hi John,

Firstly, yes I do think they mean Thorpe Hesley when they say Thorp.

I couldn't find a death for John Butler in that area though. Maybe someone with sharper eyes can spot it.

I note that Tom Butler's baptism was only 2 weeks after his parents marriage. This raises the question, how happy was John about getting married? Odd that he wasn't with Elizabeth in either 1841 or 1851. Could he have done a runner, or could he have moved to work at a pit which paid better money?

I found the marriage record for the daughter, Mary Butler. She married John Collier on 9/11/1863 in Wentworth and said her father was John Butler, miner. It didn't say that he was deceased though, although that could have been an oversight.

Heths

Thorpe Hesley is often referred to as Thorpe by locals. (An old name is Slate Thorpe.) The census for Thorpe Hesley is tricky because there were parts in Rotherham parish, later Kimberworth, and the other parts in Wentworth parish. Boundaries criss-crossed the main street, and were not sorted out until 1936.

Sally

John - This map revised 1901 illustrates what I mean. Ecclesfield was also involved, at the west end of the village.

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16.0&lat=53.46197&lon=-1.43090&layers=168&b=1

The church was built in 1839, a curacy attached to Wentworth. A boundary runs through the graveyard and the vicarage. The Wesleyan chapel was older.

Sally

Thanks folks for your replies so at least it is not me that xan't find a death for John Butler. Yes John was a miner so its going to be a long shot to see if we can find him in 1841...

Crazy question...do you think the resaon John did not want to marry Elizabeth is perhaps that he was already married?

Got a busy few days at work now but hopefully I shall find time John Willey was a butcher by trade..unless of course he was a mason first and learnt the butcher trade to follow his father Joshua who died in 1852 who was a butcher.

Really would like to find John Willey's first marriage.

John

just looked at the census and the John Willey the mason was with his father called Richard so wrong Willey family but nevertheless Richard I presume could be Joshua's brother will look into that later. Really need John Willey with a father Joshua first marriage

John
1851 Census Greasborough. John Willey 36 Widower, butcher living with his father Joshua also butcher.
Dave

1836 Rotherham John Willey bachelor married Mary Nightsales spinster.
on 1841 census Greasborough John 25, Mary 40.

Death 1848 Greasborough Mary Willey 52

Baptism Masborough 1800 Mary Nightscales

Dave

Greasbrough(sic) marriage registers commence in 1849, previously a chapelry in Rotherham parish which is where marriages would be. See Sheffield Archives ref PR16.

There are transcripts on Genuki, also baptisms & burials e.g:

https://www.genuki.org.uk/search?keys=greasbrough+marriages

Dave,

Thanks for the info, you have confirmed my theory now that John Willey married someone much older then himself. That does seem strange unless mary was expecting and both sets of parents made them marry

Found a death of a John Butler buried Feb 1852 at shalesmoor st Phillips but no other information shown, could this be the John Butler that married Elizabeth Waller.

We have not found him on the 1841 or 1851 census as he was not with his wife and children on any of them.

Anyone any thoughts on this

"Found a death of a John Butler buried Feb 1852 at shalesmoor st Phillips but no other information shown, could this be the John Butler that married Elizabeth Waller."

Hi John, in the 1851 census there was a John Butler, shoemaker, aged 45 born Conisbrough living at Court 4 Shalesmoor. I'm wondering if the burial might have been for that guy, with him living in the parish?

Heths

Heather that is the burial I found, with the info you found on the 1851 census I think we can rule this burial out as the one I am looking for.

Still wonder now if possibly up to no good, shall have to look at the crime and punishment section or the newspapers to see if anything shows up