Has anyone access to the original registers for the above church, I was wondering if the register contains more info then on the transcription cd ie who his wife was.

George Butler was buried in 1850 aged 29 and was wondering if his wife was called Elizabeth.

The reason for my asking is that in 1852 and Elizabeth Butler married a John Willey and they were both widow/widower aged 35 and 36.

The maiden name of Elizabeth was Waller and I have found her baptism in 1816.

what I can't find is both John and Elizabeths first marriages.

I think possibly though that Elizabeth married a George Butler in 1848 but the original is not on here or FMP

I have discounted the John Butler marriage to and Elizabeth as I believe that she had the surname willoughby.

If anyone can assist please it would be helpful but the marriages in earlier years could be in Greasbrough as that is where the famioly were from.

Cheers

John

Hi John,

All Saints will be the next Church Libby Wainwright and her Merry Transcribers will be working on. I am sure she would appreciate any transcribing you could do.

Elaine in Ottawa.

PS are we looking for a George or John Butler?

Have you checked out the 1841 census index over to the left.

Hi John,

There’s a birth Q1 1842 Rotherham for a Mary Butler with MMN Waller. Did you already check that out?

Heths

Hi John,
Following up on the trail of Heather, there is a marriage in 1848, Sept. quarter, Rotherham District (recorded on Free BMD) between a number of spouse choices but one of them is a possible:
ELIZABETH WALLER to GEORGE BUTLER

HAPPY HUNTING :sleuth_or_spy:

Thanks for your replies.

Basically I do not know which Butler Elizabeth Waller married I am guessing at George in 1848 but the Mary in 1842 I did not see so will have to o back to the drawing board.

I am also trying to find the first marriage of John Willey, I think this is to Mary Nightingales and if it is I have not yet traced a death for Mary.

There is a John Willey at Greasbrough on the 1841 census aged 25 with a Mary aged 40 which I presume could be him but John was a butcher by trade and the 1841 census shows he was a labourer.

I shall keep hunting.

John

I think you are spot on with the Mary in 1842. In 1851Mary Butler is living with her mother Elizabeth and her grandparents Thomas and Ann Whaler and Thomas was a nail maker as what is mentioned on the marriage cert of 1852.

Unfortunately no father listed for Mary even though it says Elizabeth is married.

I think therefore we can rule the marriage of 1848 out and the George at Ecclesall All Saints burial.

I need to find therefore a marriage pre 1837 because the 1851 census states they was a Thomas Butler born in 1837.

I think the only way I will be able to solve this is to get the info for Mary Butler so it will hopefully give the name of her father.

John

Hi John,

There was also a Samuel Butler aged 11 with Elizabeth in the 1851 census. Looking for them in 1841, Elizabeth was alone in Thorp with Samuel aged 2. She was listed as a labourer’s wife, but this was crossed out.

Baptisms at Wentworth:
Tom Butler 28/05/1837, parents John (Miner) and Elizabeth, of Thorpe.
Sam Butler 21/04/1839, same parents and address.

Marriage Rotherham 14/05/1837 John Butler and Elizabeth Waller, witnesses Jonathan Preston and Matthew Butler.

Heths

PS - 1841 census, Tom aged 4 was with Thomas Whaler (nailor) and wife Ann and their family in Thorp.

Heths

Heather,

Thank you, I found them in 1851 but not in 1841. I must use Whaler as a variant I use FMP

All I need to do next then is find a death for a John Butler between 1847 and 1852 at Thorp?

Is Thorp the same as Thorp Hesley?

secondly John Willey@s first marriage.

John

John,

By using the 1841 census index over to the left you can turn Elizabeth up.

Butler, Elizabeth of New Holand, Masbro, Kimberworth. Aged 25 years.
(Piece #1328/5, folio 17b, enumeration district 2.)

By using Family Search which is very helpful you will find more information. All for Free.

Elaine.

John as you have FMP if you look at the two Elizabeth Butlers listed as being in Rotherham you will see that the one in Thorpe is on the same census page as the Willey (hard to read) family with son John a mason.

Coincidence??????

The first Elizabeth is alone aged 25 and the 2nd with a child Samuel as noted before. The first Elizabeth was not born in Yorkshire.


Elaine.

For your information.Rotherham Marriages are in our Database.

Rotherham Parish Church - July 15, 1540 to June 26, 1837

Hi John,

Firstly, yes I do think they mean Thorpe Hesley when they say Thorp.

I couldn't find a death for John Butler in that area though. Maybe someone with sharper eyes can spot it.

I note that Tom Butler's baptism was only 2 weeks after his parents marriage. This raises the question, how happy was John about getting married? Odd that he wasn't with Elizabeth in either 1841 or 1851. Could he have done a runner, or could he have moved to work at a pit which paid better money?

I found the marriage record for the daughter, Mary Butler. She married John Collier on 9/11/1863 in Wentworth and said her father was John Butler, miner. It didn't say that he was deceased though, although that could have been an oversight.

Heths

Thorpe Hesley is often referred to as Thorpe by locals. (An old name is Slate Thorpe.) The census for Thorpe Hesley is tricky because there were parts in Rotherham parish, later Kimberworth, and the other parts in Wentworth parish. Boundaries criss-crossed the main street, and were not sorted out until 1936.

Sally

John - This map revised 1901 illustrates what I mean. Ecclesfield was also involved, at the west end of the village.

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16.0&lat=53.46197&lon=-1.43090&layers=168&b=1

The church was built in 1839, a curacy attached to Wentworth. A boundary runs through the graveyard and the vicarage. The Wesleyan chapel was older.

Sally

Thanks folks for your replies so at least it is not me that xan't find a death for John Butler. Yes John was a miner so its going to be a long shot to see if we can find him in 1841...

Crazy question...do you think the resaon John did not want to marry Elizabeth is perhaps that he was already married?

Got a busy few days at work now but hopefully I shall find time John Willey was a butcher by trade..unless of course he was a mason first and learnt the butcher trade to follow his father Joshua who died in 1852 who was a butcher.

Really would like to find John Willey's first marriage.

John

just looked at the census and the John Willey the mason was with his father called Richard so wrong Willey family but nevertheless Richard I presume could be Joshua's brother will look into that later. Really need John Willey with a father Joshua first marriage

John
1851 Census Greasborough. John Willey 36 Widower, butcher living with his father Joshua also butcher.
Dave

1836 Rotherham John Willey bachelor married Mary Nightsales spinster.
on 1841 census Greasborough John 25, Mary 40.

Death 1848 Greasborough Mary Willey 52

Baptism Masborough 1800 Mary Nightscales

Dave

Greasbrough(sic) marriage registers commence in 1849, previously a chapelry in Rotherham parish which is where marriages would be. See Sheffield Archives ref PR16.

There are transcripts on Genuki, also baptisms & burials e.g:

https://www.genuki.org.uk/search?keys=greasbrough+marriages

Dave,

Thanks for the info, you have confirmed my theory now that John Willey married someone much older then himself. That does seem strange unless mary was expecting and both sets of parents made them marry

Found a death of a John Butler buried Feb 1852 at shalesmoor st Phillips but no other information shown, could this be the John Butler that married Elizabeth Waller.

We have not found him on the 1841 or 1851 census as he was not with his wife and children on any of them.

Anyone any thoughts on this

"Found a death of a John Butler buried Feb 1852 at shalesmoor st Phillips but no other information shown, could this be the John Butler that married Elizabeth Waller."

Hi John, in the 1851 census there was a John Butler, shoemaker, aged 45 born Conisbrough living at Court 4 Shalesmoor. I'm wondering if the burial might have been for that guy, with him living in the parish?

Heths

Heather that is the burial I found, with the info you found on the 1851 census I think we can rule this burial out as the one I am looking for.

Still wonder now if possibly up to no good, shall have to look at the crime and punishment section or the newspapers to see if anything shows up