THE VOICE CONNECTION
SOUND OFF

Welcome to The Voice Connection Sound Off; a forum for users of books like Raise Your Voice, Melody to Madness, The Ultimate Breathing Workout, and Unleash Your Creative Mindset, as well as a place for Vendera Vocal Academy members to interact.

This message board was created so that singers could come together and "sound off" to help support each other during vocal development and the creative process of unleashing the creative spark that occurs when writing and producing music. Currently, myself and vocal coaches Ben Valen, Ray West, and Ryan Wall are here to respond periodicially to your questions, with new vocal coaches coming soon. But, feel free to help each other too:)

This board is here for you to ask questions about my and my fellow coach's books, videos, and MP3 programs, as well as offer others help with our vocal techniques. You may also post videos of yourself and your band to share your music and ask for critiques.

Please refrain from negative comments, profanities, spamming, and inappropriate criticisms of vocal methodologies, vocal coaches, and singers. All negative posts will be deleted and subject to banning without question. I will not respond to negative posts, because, as Mark Twain once said, “Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” With that said, positive criticism is welcome because that is how you'll grow as a singer during the training process.


The Voice Connection - Sound Off
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Re: How did 80s metal singers learn to sing??

Jens
Heiman is great, ive seen him live and jorn.
But man the best singer live who did the most crazy things was the singer from H.E.A.T

this is comming from me whos the biggest jorn and heiman fan ever :P So if you ever get the chance to see H.E.A.T dont miss it the singer is a ******* monster

Im not close but could not hold myself ;)

http://www.speedyshare.com/files/22964432/daniel_heiman_skrik.asf


Hey I'm wathing that guy, and I must say he's really good but nowhere near powerful and pitched in screaming as Heiman, as I was expecting

Hey Jens are you from Sweden?

Re: How did 80s metal singers learn to sing??

Yeah, Jamie's book is great. Does anyone want to give his/her thoughts on Steven Tyler's voice change over the years? For most people the voice gets slightly worse, but his got better :)

Re: How did 80s metal singers learn to sing??

Yeah but seriously see him live, when i saw him he went completly nuts. Throwing in soprano C/D raising key of the already high choruses. Best live singer ive ever seen. So dont miss him if he comes around :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ab2sOngXrys&feature=related

this was from eurovision songcontest :P


Yeah im from sweden

Re: How did 80s metal singers learn to sing??

Steven Tyler is studied voice with Mark Baxter and some others, so he learned how to access his upper register with grit and power without trying to slug it out like a street fighter like he did in the 70's. Love Tyler's voice. In fact, I have to learn a bunch of different songs from bands like John Mayer, Alter Bridge, Chilli Peppers, ACDC, Creed, Jeff Buckley, Zep, etc. for all these workshops coming up. We are doing last child. That song friggin rocks. Here's the funny thing; They now do it half-step higher than the original and I think it sounds better that way;)

Yes, everyone is entitled to their opinion Phil, and there is absolutely no sense in arguing over it at all. Metal fans are seriously messed up in the head, haha, because all we wanna do is put our favs on a pedestal and berate the ons we don't like.

Bottom line, unless you can go on tour and pull off what ANY of these guys can do, you shouldn't be putting them down. They are all good singers...

And speaking of Heiman, does anyone know where I can get that second HEED release? I friggin love that release. I wish they'd add all that stuff to itunes. I am too lazy to dig through my CDs and add the Lost Horizon and Heed stuff to my iphone...Also got the one Daniel did with Crystal Eyes. Pretty cool.

Re: How did 80s metal singers learn to sing??

You mean CD, or link for the HEED?

@Jens In my opinion Sweden has best talents and musicians in the world- so many talented bands ;)

Re: How did 80s metal singers learn to sing??

Yeah we rock ;) One day i will be in one of those bands to!

Re: How did 80s metal singers learn to sing??

" Metal fans are seriously messed up in the head, haha, because all we wanna do is put our favs on a pedestal and berate the ons we don't like. "

Yes, metal fans are the absolute WORST when it comes to opinionative arguing. I never developed this "ability" because I came from a pop background before getting into metal. I couldn't believe my ears when I heard people yelling at each other over opinions. I don't even understand what they hope to achieve? what? Okay, you swear at me and call me an idiot for not liking such and such, so now suddenly, and magically my opinion changes and agrees with you? WHAT? how does that work? of course i will just think what i think.

I don't think I will ever understand it.

Re: How did 80s metal singers learn to sing??

Pop background ey? ok what if I said Britney Spears sucks then! HUh! Huh! Not so funny now ey?

Re: How did 80s metal singers learn to sing??

You missed my point. my point was that I find metal fans are the worst when it comes to the whole "thinking my opinion is fact" syndrome. I never developed this "trait" because I wasn't a "born metal head", i got into metal way after spending many yaers in things like techno, pop and rap. as for britney spears yeah i think she' sucks, but anyone who likes her is entitled to, i don't really care, my main gripe is with people who think that others who disagree with their views lack "skill or knowledge" which is what revelations was pretty much stating. i knew one guy that used to abuse me because i didn't like power metal. i never understood what he was trying to achieve? did he think abusing me would suddenly make me enjoy it?

Re: How did 80s metal singers learn to sing??

chill it was a joke ;)

Re: How did 80s metal singers learn to sing??

I agree, Sweden and Finland are countries with overflowed buffer of talents - whole west world of filth could take example in every aspect from ya people.As someone above stated, so many talented musicians and creative minds we can find only inside your land!
@Phil: I wasn't stating it in that meaning, it'd be stupid and pointless to create such absurd message, anyone who calls himself a singer and knows the boundaries of voice creativity and versatility and is capable of expanding them, can't and couldn't state that the mentioned Mr. is the best vocal in the world from them all since 80's to date.
The guy who insulted you is a total stupid and funny clown - stupid metalhead!

Re: How did 80s metal singers learn to sing??

hahaha I agree with you Phil. Actually I was never into metal when I was younger. I did start listening to some Def Leppard at 12 but quickly went back to Prince, Chaka Khan, Air Supply, Wham, Duran Duran, Ready for the World, Earth Wind and Fire, John Lennon, Elvis...And I STILL love these bands along with the harder rock and metal....I know I know, don't shoot me metal fans because I DID grow up listening to Zeppelin but just liked the pop stuff better. You want to be a great singer??? Broaden your horizons and listen to everyone from pop to blues to gospel, rap, country, etc., and if you don't like any of the metal singers listed on this post, take a chance and actually listen to a few of their albums, because you just might find something that inspires you...I am running out to nbuy the new Kevin Rudolf today...Yeah he IS one of my students, but i also enjoy his songs like Let it Rock and I made It... So learn from everyone!!! that's what I do so that I assure that I am a good vocal coach;)

Re: How did 80s metal singers learn to sing??

@Jaime: There is no second release from the Heed except that one album, The Call from 2006....I must say it's pretty much strange sound for the metal band, you can't even label them from so much alternation in the sound, but Heiman rocks and there to myself 4-5 very good songs.

Re: How did 80s metal singers learn to sing??

I think jaime talks about the 4 new songs they put up on their myspace, they never made it to cd though :P

Re: How did 80s metal singers learn to sing??

Yeah I heard it was a demo or something. Just wanted to buy it. I loved the whole HEED CD. I liked that it was different. Anything he does is pretty cool. Also like the singer from Spiral Architect. Now that's some screwed up but cool singing;)

Re: How did 80s metal singers learn to sing??

I didn't know for the songs outside the cd, probably uploaded before the ice thing :P

Re: How did 80s metal singers learn to sing??

Finland, Finland, Finland,
The country where I want to be,
Pony trekking or camping,
Or just watching TV.
Finland, Finland, Finland.
It's the country for me. - Monty Python

Finland has even heavy metal for kids:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UW5IWGH2d0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDEwMzQ_Osg

And we have Lordi who won the Eurovision Song contest ;)

Re: How did 80s metal singers learn to sing??

And your neverending urge for alcohol ;)

Re: How did 80s metal singers learn to sing??

Heat and fire in this topic :) ; I'd only repeat this once: DANIEL HEIMAN rules in the world of vocal chords as an untouchable Master God of them all; the guy is closest to perfection as human can be - technical perfection... I think Zeus gave him his super extra lightning thunderbolts instead of chords ;)

Re: How did 80s metal singers learn to sing??

@Revelation. You can also see it this way:
On your interactions. Do you want to attract people or to repel them? Have you noticed that the guys that are great but are also humble at the same time attract more people because they earn their respect? Then they're listened to with much more attention.
What I am learning is that you should not give feedback to people just because you want to. Even if your merest intention is to help them out. Give feedback to people when they're listening. That is when they ask you for it. Otherwise you'll annoy the crap out of them and push them away.

The best leaders are the greatest followers.

Re: How did 80s metal singers learn to sing??

why is this thread way up the top again? this argument was finished wtih months ago stop trying to restart it

Re: How did 80s metal singers learn to sing??

Jaime Vendera
Broaden your horizons and listen to everyone from pop to blues to gospel, rap, country, etc.,


You can broaden your singing horizons without listening to rap. The music should at least have melody and singing. LOL!

Re: How did 80s metal singers learn to sing??

Ben: I sort of agree with that but rap music has a strong rhythm element which could be useful to practise. But honestly, I cannot stand that stuff coming from MTV anyway, I wonder if that is even real rap...

PS. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You%27re_Getting_Old

PS2. personally I expand my horizons with LSD

PS3. Just kidding, never found a dealer.

Re: How did 80s metal singers learn to sing??

Yeah, strong rhythm is all that rap has going for it. There are plenty other styles of music that have strong rhythmic elements that actually have melody and harmony as well. Funk music comes to mind and old school RnB.

Re: How did 80s metal singers learn to sing??

Jens
Heiman is great, ive seen him live and jorn.
But man the best singer live who did the most crazy things was the singer from H.E.A.T

this is comming from me whos the biggest jorn and heiman fan ever :P So if you ever get the chance to see H.E.A.T dont miss it the singer is a ******* monster


H.e.a.t is looking for a new singer :( But maybe you could apply! :)

http://www.heatsweden.com/index.php

Re: How did 80s metal singers learn to sing??

Heiman is truly a beast, I love his work in Lost Horizon, and maybe even more in Heed. Their demo was brutal, the guy even learned to growl pretty sweet while still maintaing that clean, high-pitched voice of his.

He's currently in a band called Lavett, a band that completely wastes his vocal talent, in my opinion.
But if that's what he wants do to, all respect to him. You should do whatever it is that makes you motivated and passionate.

All you Heiman-fans out there, make sure to check them out. Just because I really don't care for their music doesn't mean that you won't like it. Surely, a lot of people do.

http://www.lavett.net/


iTunes get music on
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Re: How did 80s metal singers learn to sing??

OMG!!!!!!
i leave the board for a month or so to go play a gig in another state, and i come back and my post has 88 replies!!!!
thats crazy!!

too bad it's all a bunch of stupid arguments over some self-righteous ***** who probably doesn't like halford just cuz he's not a good, heterosexual christian... :/

Re: How did 80s metal singers learn to sing??

Halford's not a heterosexual Christian???

Re: How did 80s metal singers learn to sing??

In 1998, Halford came out as gay publicly on an interview with MTV News.

"I think that most people know that I've been a gay man all of my life, and it's only been in recent times it's an issue that I feel comfortable to address (...) something that I feel has a moment, and this is the moment to discuss it."
—Rob Halford

He describes himself as a "heavy metal Christian".
So i guess he's still a Christian, i always just assumed there weren't any gay christian metal singers :P
sorry.

Re: How did 80s metal singers learn to sing??

xblackxsailsx
In 1998, Halford came out as gay publicly on an interview with MTV News.

"I think that most people know that I've been a gay man all of my life, and it's only been in recent times it's an issue that I feel comfortable to address (...) something that I feel has a moment, and this is the moment to discuss it."
—Rob Halford

He describes himself as a "heavy metal Christian".
So i guess he's still a Christian, i always just assumed there weren't any gay christian metal singers :P
sorry.


I believe you have fallen prey to JV's humorous sarcasm. lol

Re: How did 80s metal singers learn to sing??

Why yes, yes he has;)

Re: How did 80s metal singers learn to sing??

He built up pressure in his larynx when he did that record. It's the same trick you use when imitating Kermit the Frog.

Re: How did 80s metal singers learn to sing??

All of these great singers and no Russell Allen or Eric Adams???? EGG?

Re: How did 80s metal singers learn to sing??

revelation
Technically and realistically speaking Mr. Halford in my opinion is the worst and most overrated "singer" in the history of Hard music and universe to be more precise. His "voice" technic is non-existent, just an awful and terrible falsetto tries within thin poor voice, that made him a legend among people who doesn't know the clue about singing and vocal structure of the voice(see also King Diamond :D )!


Wow someone is oblivious.. Apparently you have only been listening too Judas Priest most recent albums. You know, the one's in which he is in his 60's and has been pounding his vocal folds for nearly 40 years, not to mention the drug addictions. Too say he is the worst let alone overrated is just plain delusional. Oh wait maybe it's due to the fact I know nothing about the voice that's why I like Rob Halford's singing, yeah that must be it. I guess I'll take my nearly 3 and half octaves and sulk in the corner because I know nothing about the voice. I'll make sure I let my vocal coach know she and her years opera and being a musical coordinator can take her 4 octaves and shove it.

revelation

There are so many great singers and talents in todays and post-80s metal scene and I still can't believe that people are so limited to this so called singer instead of expanding their horizons with real talents.
In the 80's context refer to real idols such as: Jeff Scot Soto, DIO of course, Steve Grimmet, Kai Hansen, Michael Kiske, Michael Sweet, Mark Boals, Tony Moore, Tate etc.


This made me laugh. First of all no one is saying that Halford is there limit; second your saying how you don't understand how someone does not expand there horizons with real talent. Well I'm not saying any of those mentioned are talented; they just all have the same talent. With the exception of DIO and Tate you could have someone who has never heard any of them before and not tell the difference between them. Hell two of them were in the same band.

As for DIO and Tate, neither one of them kept there voice past the mid 90's. Sure they can still (DIO could.. ) sing, but Tate's tone quality is nothing compared to what it was and he can't sing consistently high anymore. DIO's tone never really changed much, but he sure wasn't singing Don't Talk To Strangers in the same key. Does this make them any less of an icon? No. Back when they were in there prime, they were powerhouses and the same goes for Rob Halford. Sure he uses a lot of falsetto now, but in the 70's, 80's and a good chuck of the 90's, he was clean, gritty, full and used his full range nearly every night.

I get it though, you like singers with a specific sound anything outside the little box is terrible to you. Don't worry you'll expand your horizon someday.

Re: How did 80s metal singers learn to sing??

Kai Hansen is an amaaaaaazing singer yeah! **** he was amazing on the early stuff

Re: How did 80s metal singers learn to sing??

Please listen to "Run of the Mill" from Rocka Rolla as well as the whole Sad Wings of Destiny album. Halford was a fantastic singer in the 70s.

Another thing that I seldom see discussed is the "dramatic" parts of singing, such as vibrato and glissando. I think Dio is horrible- he conveys this cheesy melodrama feeling. The same goes for the awful James LaBrie of Dream Theater. Cringeworthy.

CD

Re: How did 80s metal singers learn to sing??

Everything is in your will and faith to achieve something in life!

Re: How did 80s metal singers learn to sing??

Not all those guys are Tenors. If you ever heard Geoff Tate or Jim Gillette speak you'd say they were both deep basses. Yes they didn't have the isolation method. Gotta remember guys, there are LOTS of ways to improve your singing voice. my books are just one avenue. Now with that said, you are right, drive, will and desire...These guys wanted to sing and they wanted to sing high, so they sang high songs until they got there;)