I don't listen to 80s metal, but i've always admired their skill with singing, and i've looked up most of the old metal singers i'm familiar with, (dio, dickinson, guy from the scorpions..) and they claim not to have taken any vocal lessons...
how did they learn to sing so well?

Dio claims his breathing training for brass instruments helped him. Dickinson was in a school choir if I remember correctly but his technique really wasn't that good in the 80s, he had blown his voice by the Fear of the Dark tour, after he left Maiden his technique improved quite dramatically, to the point that he's finally back to singing stuff like Aces High, at age 51, I think he took lessons.

Halford has been singing naturally for ages but he's been doing destructive stuff for years, some of his falsetto gritty screaming is abrasive, plus he's a smoker and does **** like eat crisps and not warm up before a show, which is damaging. On the other hand, on the latest tour he's been quite a bit better than any time since 2004, he seems to have accepted the need to really give it all in his middle range, even when his high range is shot.

I've been wondering about this too. It's not like they've been doing the Isolation exercises, or anything. How did they achieve their range?

Well, those guys are tenors so high range should be more natural for them. Secondly, isolation exercise is not the only way to build range even if it may be a fast method. Maybe they just had it from the beginning, or they kept on singing for years and learnt it.

Alkis, this doesn't explain how they built their incredible ranges. I don't understand how you can build a great range when your technique is off

You are missing one very important factor. There *is* such a thing as natural flair for singing, some people just find it easier than others. That does not mean that someone who hasn't got that can't learn how to sing, possibly better than a natural, but it does mean that a tiny minority doesn't have to bust their arses as much as others to develop at least part of their singing technique.

Dickinson learnt how to sing this way by idolising singers such as Ian Gillan. His range was and is amazing but his technique in the 80s was not perfect and he paid the price.

Dio had another part of the technique down naturally while he learnt breathing technique. They have all *worked* to get to the level they are, it's just that work doesn't necessarily mean lessons, it's possible to find some method that works for you on your own, but if lessons are available they will make your job easier by pointing you in the right direction.

You just need to consider the fact that for every vocalist that taught himself how to be amazing by following just the right path there's probably a thousand that failed, even by changing one small variable.

Oh, and for the guy that said "they are tenors", well, Halford isn't, he's a baritone, his breakpoint is a tone or two higher than mine.

Oh, yes, not every 80s singer is a tenor but I was mainly referring to original poster's list.

It's a funny world. I was led to believe that I can't sing high if I don't have that "gift" until I found Jaime's book by a chance - and then Thomas Appell, Rob Lunte, Jim Gillette etc (probably because Jaime referred them). Logically thinking, as singing is done with help of muscles, it should be obvious that muscles can be trained but it's not! Still today I see people claiming on webforums and other places that "you can't get extra notes". World is still flat for many of us!

Technically and realistically speaking Mr. Halford in my opinion is the worst and most overrated "singer" in the history of Hard music and universe to be more precise. His "voice" technic is non-existent, just an awful and terrible falsetto tries within thin poor voice, that made him a legend among people who doesn't know the clue about singing and vocal structure of the voice(see also King Diamond :D )! There are so many great singers and talents in todays and post-80s metal scene and I still can't believe that people are so limited to this so called singer instead of expanding their horizons with real talents.
In the 80's context refer to real idols such as: Jeff Scot Soto, DIO of course, Steve Grimmet, Kai Hansen, Michael Kiske, Michael Sweet, Mark Boals, Tony Moore, Tate etc.

Not that I'm a huge Halford fan or anything, but I disagree with what you said. Just because he doesn't sing in a way that you like doesn't make him a bad technical singer. In fact, it takes a great deal of certain technique to sing the way he does. Otherwise, everyone could do it. And I'm not talking about producing a single scream like he does, but song after song, night after night. That takes technique. You also said that he's a legend among people who don't have a clue about singing. Well, then guys like Jamie Vendera are in that bunch and I guess they don't have a clue about singing? I think you need to broaden your mind about the fact that there are many styles of singing and no "one" style is the "best" or even most technical. As for Rob Halford - he chose to sing the way he sings because he found out that that particular style MOVED a certain group of people. He may not be the best singer ever (that's kind of impossible to say about anyone) but the most overrated singer in history he's not. Just look at his influences in the metal genre. Ok, I'll stop my rambling. Peace out! :)

I have never read that Jaime said that he's a legend or that he rated the guy as the top as most other people imply, he knows better than you that he can't be measured as a standard by any means. I'm just 20 years old and without bragging or rating myself I can hit such notes that he would be wiped out just from my own young technical experience, the point here is that hitting the high notes and pitches are of least criteria in measuring REAL talent of a singer. His screams ARE POOR, light ,w-e-a-k and non-realistic; and re-read it again if you like! Michael Sweet for example destroys him with his strong and non-false technical in one hand screams and he's barely known among the crowd. I am very aware of probably the most styles of singing in terms of Metal and Rock best of, otherwise I wouldn't be so confident in putting down some false beliefs and misconceptions or take them for granted by listening others wrong and false claims. My speciality in last 3 years was finding the best of the best technical and emotional singers in general and believe me I looked for every single bit of criteria from tone color to range control, voice consistence, live performance etc. After so much exploring and studying the voice by listening the best of the best in the world, I'm able to judge objectively in few seconds how good someone really is in singing and performance - and why because I've heard the REAL TOP!

Oh snap.

Yeah, Halford is not one of my most favorite singers either. But it's not because of his technique...he does possess great technique, though. It's just that I'm not THAT into his voice. I think there are a ton of other better singers out there. I'll tell you something... there was a time...where I would rate a singer like, King Diamond, a 9 or 10. Ever since I started taking singing seriously, guys like King Diamond are now at a 2 or 3. I, too, also enjoy the more emotional and expressive singers. Some just simply sing... others can be really good actors and show more emotion, and passion, and that's what I really like in a singer. King Diamond has no emotion or passion, unfortunately.

I have a friend with whom I played in a heavy rock band for many years. He has a natural high 80's hair voice. He has never done exercises of any kind, taken no lessons, and obviously has no clue what he is doing theory-wise. I tried to ask him that how he does the stuff and how he has learned it, but he had no explanation whatsoever and told me that that is the way he has always sung. The only practicing I know he did was to sing along with records. I joined his band while he was perhaps 30 years old, and I remember seeing him 10 years earlier and his voice was pretty much alike then, too. Perhaps little less gritty and more young Geoff Tate -like .

Check him out, especially the Ratrace song:
http://www.mikseri.net/artists/operationmajority.64856.php

Well King Diamond is not in my top three BUT in my opinion he can express himself and sings with passion. Also, he makes great stories if you like to dive into the dark side of human mind. Not simple songs about love, booze and cars... ;) He just uses too much falsetto for my taste and because of that I can't listen him very long at time.

To defend Halford, he is a founding father of the heavy metal music genre. Many good singers grew up listening his voice.

I find it extremely funny that you launch an attack on Halford for sounding weak and at the same time call Kai Hansen a real idol. Hansen idolises Halford... and sounds *very* weak. Kiske is a completely different story.

Also, Michael Sweet's screams are exactly the same technique as Halford's, they are reinforced falsetto. With a very similar grit as well. Very different singers with very different styles other than that. Halford is gritty and aggressive, or rather was before his voice got shot.

Ok revelations im tired of hearing your bull****:P if youve got better highnotes then halford please post a clip... Halfords voice is far from weak, and he sings in a way that gives him alot of power.
Just because a sound has a slim tone doesnt not mean it's not powerfull, why do you think jaime uses his "thinner" voice when he breaks glass? Because it can reach 120 db...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZxhgIYdLHw&feature=related

Listen to him here and you can hear he's a complete beast.

As far as i can tell you know very little about the voice stating such comments on one of the better of the 80's metalsingers.

But please post your clips so we can listen to how you own halford :P

Well I haven't even listed my own list of idols, except that Soto and DIO are in it -> I said 80's context, otherwise it wouldn't be so cool to hear your fanboy mouths shut. The list I gave above doesn't mean those singers are the best references, these are the ones a lot more consistent and powerful (except Kai) in the technical side of their voice and I'd say a lot more serious and variable singers and vocalists as also musicians . I don't need to prove you anything my friend, I'm the only one to prove myself to and do know what I'm able to.
If that link from above is the best he did than I feel sadness for you

Always easy to be cool on the internet dude, whenever I claim im capable of something online I can atleast provide a clip of it :P
Haha your so funny I really dunno what to reply to some of your texts.
You know you cant really hear power based on a record...
One guy who owned a studio where most of the rocksingers recorded their songs at that time said that the loudest singer he ever had in the studio was halford...

"I don't need to prove you anything my friend, I'm the only one to prove myself to and do know what I'm able to."

Dunno why your boosting yourself over the net then, just keep it to yourself...
If you claim things out of the ordinary and dont expect to get called, isnt very wise.

"ive got a bazooka home in my cupboard"

"oh let me see!"

"no i dont need to prove it to you..."

Peace man I'm not boosting myself just defending, if you need clip of hitting any Halford's high note I'll do my best to prove it can be reached with ease.(I can't record whole song because of the equipment lack)

Well great you have my full respect if you actualy post a clip :P It's not easy to step it up in a heated discussion like this :)
A clip of a scream will be great
peace

Without warm-ups, chord stress practice here it is(I don't know the name of a song, just picked from some tube video, except Stryper ):

Stryper - http://www.box.net/shared/nzqfr51vf6
JP - http://www.box.net/shared/31fa8833pm

Well done sound cool! Good range to Soprano C can be kind of a ***** sometimes, you have a very narrow sound, kindo reminds me of roberto tiranti :D
usually if you keep it a tad more open and really work that twang youll get alot extra volume :P

I know man it was just recorded without warm-up and practice... I needed some argument after all ;)

List of my influences:


##D-A-N-I-E-L H-E-I-M-A-N (LOST HORIZON)##
IURI SANSON (HIBRIA)
MIKE DIMEO(RIOT, MASTERPLAN)
ROY KHAN(Kamelot)
KIM KYUNG HO
OLIVER HARTMANN(At Vance)
Mats Leven(Malmsteen's Rising Force, Therion, At Vance)
MESSIAH MARCOLIN(Candlemass)
RONNY HEMLIN(STEEL ATTACK)
JORN LANDE(MASTERPLAN, Jorn)
Jari Maenpaa (WINTERSUN,ex-Ensiferum)
Daniel Gildenlow(P.O.S.)
Jan Thore Grefstad(Highland Glory, Saint Deamon)
Jarmo Pääkkönen(Excalion)
Bruce Dickinson(IRON MAIDEN)
Tony Moore(RIOT)
W. AXL ROSE (G N ' R)
Michael Kiske (Helloween)
Jeff Scott Soto (YM's RISING FORCE)
RONNIE JAMES DIO(DIO, BLACK SABBATH, ELF)
Jim Morrison (The DOORS)
STEVE GRIMMET(GRIM REAPER)
Luciano Pavarotti
Little Richard
Kai Hansen(Helloween)
Michael Matijevic (Steelheart)
Michael Sweet(STRYPER)
Fabio Lione(Rhapsody Of Fire)
Pero Galic(Opća Opasnost)
Mark Boals(Malmsteen)
MATHIAS BLAD(FALCONER)
ROBERTO TIRANTI(LABYRINTH)
Tony Kakko(Sonata Arctica)

Youve got very similar taste as i do, Daniel heiman is a ******* beast.
Noone compares to Jorn :P


Ps: I hope you havent missed kelly sundown carpenter from outworld

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtNF-90aqyg

worth adding to the list :P
If daniel heiman and jorn would have a baby it would be him

Thanks and yeah HEIMAN is the one you can call as SIMPLY THE BE(A)ST - One TO RULE THEM ALL - ALFA & OMEGA OF THE Vocal CHORDS ;).

Honestly, Russell Allen is better than everyone on that list.

Russell Alen is just an average and standard singer in comparison with most of the people from the list(similar to Lande in timbre but Jorn owns him with his variability). You have probably never even heard most of the guys I mentioned, otherwise Allen would be far, far from such a pointless and subjective statement and I'm speaking objectively. Russell Alen is nothing more than a good singer, accept the fact bro, everyone who has a clue about technique and voice knows there are far better vocalists than him.

no way, Russell has an amazing tone. Most singers on that list don't have a good voice. Forget about technique. They just don't have great sounding voices...especially Tony Kakko... blah. Boring, uninspired singer. Not to mention, I can't understand what he's saying the majority of times.

I'll repeat it again: You probably don't know so much about singing and probably for any of these vocals(otherwise you'd see how wrong and funny you're), your arguments are more than absurd - Russell Alen is just a singer whom others can teach the lesson. While Kakko is not such a great technical singer, he's emotional and do know the way to connect the feeling for song with the performance. They don't have a good voice :D :lol: I mean are you trying to provoke fight or what :D Check your ears finally and then expand some obviously very limited horizons. Vocalists from the list are the best of the best in the whole world of criteria and the world as it is.

Guys, this is getting ridiculous. People have their preferences and that's that. Revelations, your attitude is in fact quite annoying, you just say that anyone with different preferences to you know nothing about the voice. Lighten up.

Yes, I've heard every singer on that list minus a couple and I like quite a few of them but you take this to an extreme. 90% of the singers on that list have a single singing style and a few of them are completely (IMHO) unremarkable, like the guy from Sonata Arctica with the horrible accent that sounds like quite a few other power metal singers. Kiske would outsing him on a bad day.

And I do not find him emotional at all, you want emotional, try Midnight (Crimson Glory), Warrel Dane (Nevermore), Tom Englund (Evergrey) or a million other singers, including people in your list (Jorn, Messiah, Dickinson and Dio would be good examples).

Tony Moore is a good singer but he's very one dimensional, he seems to favour his high range over anything else.

You are probably going to hate me for this but I really really do not like the guy from Lost Horizon. He clearly has pipes, I just do not find his approach interesting, it's similar to other power metal singers. Pure is a good song (and performance) though.

Anyway, at the end of the day, singing is a way to put forward your emotions and your attitudes. Some singers succeed and others fail at this.

Your attack on Halford leaves that factor out pretty much completely, he never was a monster of technique, at least not consistently, but he knows how to use his voice with attitude. Sometimes he was full, sometimes he was thin, some periods were full (mid-70s), some were thin as hell (the Painkiller tour) and some are destroyed (well... everything since 2000), but he always knew what to write to get people rocking and that is the most important skill a musician has to develop. When coupled with great technique you get perfection. See: Dio. :-)

You see I still don't believe you heard most or any of them(sometimes it takes a bit of time to recognize some things) in right way(maybe you're just freaking jealous you'll never be able to sing even intro of their songs, who knows), after all post your list of prefered "more-than-one style" vocalists :D . You're acting just like an ego boosted troll idiot who filled his head with such an illusions he's far better than anyone, with his 3 1/2 irrelevant octaves?? within who knows how relevant voice.
Plz I do know how great the singers from a list are after all, in every aspect and don't teach ME because you obviously do not know a ****(Kakko has a fair accent), you're just falling like puppet from a string in this epic fail try of proving some ridiculous and absurd arguments. This has just proved my friend how tiny or non-existent your knowledge really is.

I'm only gonna say one thing on this matter and it's that you're not gonna get very far in life with this attitude. In other words...: Troll!

:-)

I'm asking you again, fill the list with your influences, post your clips, defend your background if you're able to, ...for god sake it's simple as that. After all who cares about your opinion and what you think.

I care about everyone's opinion on here and what they think! Nuff arguing. Singers need to realize that there is a wide variety of influences and just because you don't like one singer doesn't make your favorite singer the best. For example, I LOVE Daniel Heiman, he's a beast, love the whole list you posted. I also love Russell Allen and contrary to your opinion, he's a great singer. JSS is another great singer. I personally cannot stand King Diamond but that doesn't mean he cannot do his thing. He chose his certain path and apparently it has worked for him. And Michael Sweet, who has read my book, phewww what a singer! He DOES use the same technical approach as Halford, but their tonal differences are because of their different shapes. What you guys need to realize is all of these singers are great singers, but in different ways. Fans have different tastes and are all critics including myself. But just because I personally study singers doesn't mean I can say I know who is best. No one can claim that. I can work with a singer on the road and tell who is using the tools needed to survive and who is using passion and I may say that this singer is much better than that singer, but it would be my opinion;) So rockers, don't argue, just keep luvin the metal;)

Revelations, your out on so deep waters now... Russel allen is a great vocalist, one of the best and thats because his live quality is above human...
Step down from your high horse, cause using such comments on singers that are masters of their crafts is just plain stupid.
STUPID! sure you dont like a soundideal, thats ok...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjfD0GTNS1A

Ive been around this forum and alot more for more than 5 years, reading singing technique everyday and training to get to my goal.
It makes me sad to see such ignorant comments as your posting right now.
Insulting people on a forum who's designed for learning and discussing voicetechnique, so get real there are probably many people on this forums whos on alot higher level then you in many aspects...

And I can sing, almost exactly the way i want to.

Well still in my opinion he's not impressive singer in such intensity, I do agree that he's live performance is consistent and strong in many parts - we can hear that after all. I apologize for my attitude if I've offended someone in the effect. Somebody should explain to Sx fanboys that their idol is not so great outside of their boundaries.

Well I dont shy a heated discussion, but you clearly upset some people :P

Well who on that list you posted is more then half lande? :P Jorn lande has such a dominant voice so you really cant compare anyone to him, thats why you never hear any good covers of him :P His voice is so metallic and connected to chest it's above normal! A real norwegian powerhouse, probably the best metalsinger alive today in my opinion and in many others :P

Russel allen is a very complete singer, he has a good sense of music a great voice, great technique.

listen to this song, it's very good in showing of russels diversity :P Second verse is fantastic, and if your into CVT terminology and voiceusage youll hear how good he is in changing the modes :P NOt only that he really pulls of the feeling for the song instead of just going crazy, verytastefull.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vv0u8MBbMGg

Russel allen is a very diverse singer, he could probably pull of many diffrent styles. He can go from soft to heavy, distortion and growl. He knows his voice inside out.

Well I'm new to CVT, started using it recently and I think it's a lot greater program than the one from Mrs. Melissa Cross. Have you heard the new Masterplan
Amazing performance:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFRvNwfBYoM
Russell is diverse singer and has great quality of timbre.

CVT is a great program, let it take time it will grow on you! Since the grouping of sounds and their terminology is great once you learn it! Makes it alot easyer to breakdown singers into pieces instead of the old Chestvoice Headvoice fullvoice wich can be abit comfusing sometimes :P

"Russell is diverse singer and has great quality of timbre."

Thank you

Yeah Jorn lande what shall you say the overdrives and Edge around 3:25 is so epic goosebumps

Well honestly there are so much better singers in this world, at the end it's all about preference; I think Allen is ok but nothing so special as someone above tried to impose.His timbre and tone quality are really good and we can't doubt there. In that song you linked, he really showed his diversity.

I love Paradise Lost. Russell sounds incredible on the whole album.

Yeah i agree Stan he really shines in that album both as a technical singer and as an artist. Paradise lost is a ***** to sing cause every line he sings in that song is so well thought out in both coloration and feeling, the mix between soft and agressive clean and distortion.

You're right. A long time ago, I recorded myself singing parts from all the songs on the album without even listening to it... and I sent it to Jaime to hear his thoughts...and he gave me nothing but negative feedback, LMAO! Well, not really. But let's just put it like this: I do NOT sound anything like Russell. ;)

Yeah ive heard those tracks, but man you really had some moments where you shined on those! :P

Thanks! Just gotta keep practicing and stop trying to imitate Russell. I can't help it sometimes.

revelation, please take the time to read this, because there's a slim chance in ****in' hell that you might learn something:

There are tons of people here, everyone in fact, that disagree with you that Halford in his prime had a powerful voice. Could it possibly be that we're right and you're wrong? Yes, it's YOU that don't have a clue. Even though you've listened to lots of music, according to yourself, you're still only 20 and many people here have listened to FAR more than you have. I feel sorry for YOU if you can't hear the power in Halford's voice, even on that clip Jens posted, in which I'm not even sure he's in his prime, since I don't really listen to Judas Priest. But I have EARS and can hear that he's a powerful singer.

And I listen to you clips and even though you have the range, your tonality is a million times weaker than even Halford's voice today. Even though you had the best voice in the world, it wouldn't change anything. You need to get your ears waxed and grow up. Like I said, if everyone is saying you're crazy, perhaps you simply are (as opposed to the rest of the world being crazy). I don't like to argue like this, but you brought this upon yourself by your many, very incorrect statements.

Well Mr. Jonpall I'm not an egomaniac or self-boosted idiot - you've heard neither 15% of my full potential and voice possibilities including quality; these clips were made in 1 min without any warm-ups on the laptop input without singing or practice activity of 5-6 months like I said or not above, and ONLY to demonstrate high notes reaching after Jens challenged me; so without tone quality, volume addition, timbre quality effort - as simple as that - notes hitting(You would hear that if you would have known anything my friend). In real life I can sing just about anything, and unfortunately I can't shut your lame sucked looser mouths (without offense ) because of the equipment lack... hey but wait I'm just 20 and I have bloody hell of a time to post my own performances for the crowd on this forum. You can even post a wish list if you want, and yes I do need to practice like we all need and should to become better vocalists. What do you think "smart" guy, that I'd provoke and pull all up through this if I'd be some troll without voice and talent, I just wanted to forward people to better singers, outside of Halford boundaries. And one more thing, I'm not a self-boosted person, I'm just a real about myself and the facts when it comes to situations like the ones. And near as close as something like crazy :D You're already enough crazy for putting that in the connection :D
One more thing, I feel sorry about you my friend and you should for yourself - AND HE HAS EARS . If that was vocal power... whatever

Are you serious in what you are writing Revelation? Or is this some kind of joke?

Serious about what?! Should i shut my mouths over those accusations?!

Awesome answer, relevation. lol. Everone is entitled to their own opinions, but I do find it mind boggling that you think Halford's voice in his prime is as bad as you say it is (worst singer in the history of the universe or something like that). It simply says a few things about people who state something like that. And because everyone is entitled to their own opinion, it's really impossible to say which singer is "the best". It's much easier to state that some singer have struck a chord in their listeners heart and the ones that do are "good". That's arguably what's most important for singers to do - to be able to relate some feeling to the audience. And in the metal genre, Rob Halford simply towers over most, if not all the people you've mentioned. I see no reason fighting over this online. I've got better things to do. If I want to fight I go to the local MMA gym, not bicker over singer's pipes on forums. Peace out.

I think you should reread your posts, and perhaps then you will understand why people get irritated.

I think you should change your mental attitude towards singing while being on these forums. Im not saying this to make you angry or anything like that cause I dont really care that much :P
The way i watch this forum and other forums, is an oppertunity to get more knowledge and give knowledge. The best part when your on a forum like this is when you are proven wrong, i honestly mean this! Cause thats the only time you will ever learn something new or change a point of view/grow as a vocalist.

So yes I think you would get alot more out of your time here on the internet if you shut it sometimes.
Cause now the discussion has gone as far as...

"unfortunately I can't shut your lame sucked looser mouths (without offense )"

Do you think you or others will learn anything from a discussion like this?
Do you think they will listen to you of you put it out that way even if your right?

Not a chance in hell, so basicly your just wasting time discussing something that wont come to an end.

Actually the original question of this thread is very interesting. Let's get back to it. Related to it is f.ex. the fact that Steven Tyler sung mostly in his chest voice in the first half of his career but did an occasional high scream. He didn't sing many melodies that passed through his passagio until much later. I wonder how he learned that? Maybe he just stumbled upon it and maybe, just maybe one way to learn how to sing with a rock voice in the tenor range, is to do what Steven did and sing mostly low notes and high notes but no middle notes for a few years and then the two ranges might just automatically "merge" together a few years later, without you having to do some vocal workouts. Along the way you get to gig a lot and meet pretty women. Sounds like a plan, doesn't it?

Peace out to you too.

And again, Halford tops N-O--O-N-E!

Man, I'm loving this thread.
A lot of good laughs!

On topic: I'm really interested in the Steven Tyler-question as well!



If you listen to this one, from Aerosmith's first album, released in the 70's, Tyler's voice sounds extremely different from his voice today.
I didn't even think it was the same guy when I first heard this album.

How did this extreme change happen?

Ah Revelation, you reming me of me at 20. I was very opinionated and honestly at 20 I HATED Halford. Couldn't stand Judas Priest. But a few years later I bought the box set they released because I was bored and it opened my eyes. You can say he tops no one, but again that is your opinion, and you deserve to share your opinion.

Fans can be brutal. Instead of everyone saying "This singer is the best and that one sucks" people should realize that all singers are different and it isn't about who's best in who's eyes. its the fact that we have a wide variety of music that can speak to everyone's tastes. Now, if someone on here came out and said so and so sucked and backed it with educated proof, such as following the band on tour for a year and noticing the singer sucked 95% of the time, then it would be justified.

I think it's best if it were left that in your opinion Halford just doesn't cut it, then add your list, which I thought was great by the way. Bottom line, those of you who have been on here for years know how I want to keep this board a good discussion board, which is why its only available for RYV owners.

I am cool with whatever you discuss vocally, even other techniques, as long as its to benefit all on here.I personally don't think Revelation meant any harm, I think he's just really passionate. But my brutha, you do have to watch the written word. No need lose friends on here that can help you overcome vocal hurdles;)

Thanks Jamie; we should keep it subjective, and I really meant no harm in any way ;)

PS- NOONE outsings Justin Bieber;)

Haha, Good one, I agree
Can't wait till start studying your book.

Cmon ppl, Heiman - DANIEL HEIMAN just tops any singer on the list and the world, no one can stand him the chance - Jaime knows that best and it's my opinion after all. Respect to Lande, Allen, Halford, Dio etc. HEIMAN is one in 6,5 billion!
Cheers.

One more time: DANIEL HEIMAN http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Is0dI4p09cw

Heiman is great, ive seen him live and jorn.
But man the best singer live who did the most crazy things was the singer from H.E.A.T

this is comming from me whos the biggest jorn and heiman fan ever :P So if you ever get the chance to see H.E.A.T dont miss it the singer is a ******* monster

Im not close but could not hold myself ;)

http://www.speedyshare.com/files/22964432/daniel_heiman_skrik.asf

Maybe I need to get my ears checked, but Daniel Heiman to me, sounds like a typical power metal singer. Nothing spectacular, really?..

Please don't kill me :).

What the **** just happened? I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw everyone getting into a **** fight over opinions.

You're all saying "this singer is the best" and someone esle goes "bull**** that singer sucks".

People need to realise that not everyone likes the same things, and not everyone has the same perception of what is good. and revelations, what the ****? grow up. yeah you hate halford, that's fine. but don't start saying people who like him "don't know anything". it doesn't mean that. if you like a singer, then it means you like the singer, it doesn't mean you "know nothing". for fucsk sake

Yeah, Jamie's book is great. Does anyone want to give his/her thoughts on Steven Tyler's voice change over the years? For most people the voice gets slightly worse, but his got better :)

Yeah but seriously see him live, when i saw him he went completly nuts. Throwing in soprano C/D raising key of the already high choruses. Best live singer ive ever seen. So dont miss him if he comes around :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ab2sOngXrys&feature=related

this was from eurovision songcontest :P


Yeah im from sweden

Steven Tyler is studied voice with Mark Baxter and some others, so he learned how to access his upper register with grit and power without trying to slug it out like a street fighter like he did in the 70's. Love Tyler's voice. In fact, I have to learn a bunch of different songs from bands like John Mayer, Alter Bridge, Chilli Peppers, ACDC, Creed, Jeff Buckley, Zep, etc. for all these workshops coming up. We are doing last child. That song friggin rocks. Here's the funny thing; They now do it half-step higher than the original and I think it sounds better that way;)

Yes, everyone is entitled to their opinion Phil, and there is absolutely no sense in arguing over it at all. Metal fans are seriously messed up in the head, haha, because all we wanna do is put our favs on a pedestal and berate the ons we don't like.

Bottom line, unless you can go on tour and pull off what ANY of these guys can do, you shouldn't be putting them down. They are all good singers...

And speaking of Heiman, does anyone know where I can get that second HEED release? I friggin love that release. I wish they'd add all that stuff to itunes. I am too lazy to dig through my CDs and add the Lost Horizon and Heed stuff to my iphone...Also got the one Daniel did with Crystal Eyes. Pretty cool.

You mean CD, or link for the HEED?

@Jens In my opinion Sweden has best talents and musicians in the world- so many talented bands ;)

Yeah we rock ;) One day i will be in one of those bands to!

" Metal fans are seriously messed up in the head, haha, because all we wanna do is put our favs on a pedestal and berate the ons we don't like. "

Yes, metal fans are the absolute WORST when it comes to opinionative arguing. I never developed this "ability" because I came from a pop background before getting into metal. I couldn't believe my ears when I heard people yelling at each other over opinions. I don't even understand what they hope to achieve? what? Okay, you swear at me and call me an idiot for not liking such and such, so now suddenly, and magically my opinion changes and agrees with you? WHAT? how does that work? of course i will just think what i think.

I don't think I will ever understand it.

Pop background ey? ok what if I said Britney Spears sucks then! HUh! Huh! Not so funny now ey?

You missed my point. my point was that I find metal fans are the worst when it comes to the whole "thinking my opinion is fact" syndrome. I never developed this "trait" because I wasn't a "born metal head", i got into metal way after spending many yaers in things like techno, pop and rap. as for britney spears yeah i think she' sucks, but anyone who likes her is entitled to, i don't really care, my main gripe is with people who think that others who disagree with their views lack "skill or knowledge" which is what revelations was pretty much stating. i knew one guy that used to abuse me because i didn't like power metal. i never understood what he was trying to achieve? did he think abusing me would suddenly make me enjoy it?

chill it was a joke ;)

I agree, Sweden and Finland are countries with overflowed buffer of talents - whole west world of filth could take example in every aspect from ya people.As someone above stated, so many talented musicians and creative minds we can find only inside your land!
@Phil: I wasn't stating it in that meaning, it'd be stupid and pointless to create such absurd message, anyone who calls himself a singer and knows the boundaries of voice creativity and versatility and is capable of expanding them, can't and couldn't state that the mentioned Mr. is the best vocal in the world from them all since 80's to date.
The guy who insulted you is a total stupid and funny clown - stupid metalhead!

hahaha I agree with you Phil. Actually I was never into metal when I was younger. I did start listening to some Def Leppard at 12 but quickly went back to Prince, Chaka Khan, Air Supply, Wham, Duran Duran, Ready for the World, Earth Wind and Fire, John Lennon, Elvis...And I STILL love these bands along with the harder rock and metal....I know I know, don't shoot me metal fans because I DID grow up listening to Zeppelin but just liked the pop stuff better. You want to be a great singer??? Broaden your horizons and listen to everyone from pop to blues to gospel, rap, country, etc., and if you don't like any of the metal singers listed on this post, take a chance and actually listen to a few of their albums, because you just might find something that inspires you...I am running out to nbuy the new Kevin Rudolf today...Yeah he IS one of my students, but i also enjoy his songs like Let it Rock and I made It... So learn from everyone!!! that's what I do so that I assure that I am a good vocal coach;)

@Jaime: There is no second release from the Heed except that one album, The Call from 2006....I must say it's pretty much strange sound for the metal band, you can't even label them from so much alternation in the sound, but Heiman rocks and there to myself 4-5 very good songs.

I think jaime talks about the 4 new songs they put up on their myspace, they never made it to cd though :P

Yeah I heard it was a demo or something. Just wanted to buy it. I loved the whole HEED CD. I liked that it was different. Anything he does is pretty cool. Also like the singer from Spiral Architect. Now that's some screwed up but cool singing;)

I didn't know for the songs outside the cd, probably uploaded before the ice thing :P

Finland, Finland, Finland,
The country where I want to be,
Pony trekking or camping,
Or just watching TV.
Finland, Finland, Finland.
It's the country for me. - Monty Python

Finland has even heavy metal for kids:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UW5IWGH2d0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDEwMzQ_Osg

And we have Lordi who won the Eurovision Song contest ;)

And your neverending urge for alcohol ;)

Heat and fire in this topic :) ; I'd only repeat this once: DANIEL HEIMAN rules in the world of vocal chords as an untouchable Master God of them all; the guy is closest to perfection as human can be - technical perfection... I think Zeus gave him his super extra lightning thunderbolts instead of chords ;)

@Revelation. You can also see it this way:
On your interactions. Do you want to attract people or to repel them? Have you noticed that the guys that are great but are also humble at the same time attract more people because they earn their respect? Then they're listened to with much more attention.
What I am learning is that you should not give feedback to people just because you want to. Even if your merest intention is to help them out. Give feedback to people when they're listening. That is when they ask you for it. Otherwise you'll annoy the crap out of them and push them away.

The best leaders are the greatest followers.

why is this thread way up the top again? this argument was finished wtih months ago stop trying to restart it

Ben: I sort of agree with that but rap music has a strong rhythm element which could be useful to practise. But honestly, I cannot stand that stuff coming from MTV anyway, I wonder if that is even real rap...

PS. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You%27re_Getting_Old

PS2. personally I expand my horizons with LSD

PS3. Just kidding, never found a dealer.

Yeah, strong rhythm is all that rap has going for it. There are plenty other styles of music that have strong rhythmic elements that actually have melody and harmony as well. Funk music comes to mind and old school RnB.

Heiman is truly a beast, I love his work in Lost Horizon, and maybe even more in Heed. Their demo was brutal, the guy even learned to growl pretty sweet while still maintaing that clean, high-pitched voice of his.

He's currently in a band called Lavett, a band that completely wastes his vocal talent, in my opinion.
But if that's what he wants do to, all respect to him. You should do whatever it is that makes you motivated and passionate.

All you Heiman-fans out there, make sure to check them out. Just because I really don't care for their music doesn't mean that you won't like it. Surely, a lot of people do.

http://www.lavett.net/

OMG!!!!!!
i leave the board for a month or so to go play a gig in another state, and i come back and my post has 88 replies!!!!
thats crazy!!

too bad it's all a bunch of stupid arguments over some self-righteous ***** who probably doesn't like halford just cuz he's not a good, heterosexual christian... :/

Halford's not a heterosexual Christian???

In 1998, Halford came out as gay publicly on an interview with MTV News.

"I think that most people know that I've been a gay man all of my life, and it's only been in recent times it's an issue that I feel comfortable to address (...) something that I feel has a moment, and this is the moment to discuss it."
—Rob Halford

He describes himself as a "heavy metal Christian".
So i guess he's still a Christian, i always just assumed there weren't any gay christian metal singers :P
sorry.

Why yes, yes he has;)

He built up pressure in his larynx when he did that record. It's the same trick you use when imitating Kermit the Frog.

All of these great singers and no Russell Allen or Eric Adams???? EGG?

Kai Hansen is an amaaaaaazing singer yeah! **** he was amazing on the early stuff