Welcome to our forum ~ please post your questions below.
A few queries I have run into, for you to check please Elaine.
Two baptisms at St John, Park:
Woodcock, Ellen b 1872-08-21, bp Nov 6 1872.
Ellen's birth was registered SepQ 1862, the youngest in her family. Her mother Ann would have been aged 50 in 1872. Either both these dates should be 1862, or she was baptised aged 10.
Jeffrey, Rose Ellen b 1878-06-18, bp Jan 1 1878
Should the baptism date be 1879 - or did the vicar forget it was New Years Day? If so, what are the dates either side of this entry? (The birth was registered SepQ 1878.)
Missing Burial Entry? - Norton Cemetery
Death in the GRO index is:
Woodcock, Eliza Hannah age 59, MarQ 1895, Sheffield 09C 315.
Findagrave has her in plot G1-5, death or burial date 14 Jan 1895.
This index has entries in that plot for her husband: Woodcock, William (Steel Manager, age 58) and two others who were his nephew and nephew’s wife, but Eliza Hannah is missing.
Thank you, Sally
Hi
She is listed in our transcription S&DFHS>
14 Jan 1895 Eliza H WOODCOCK aged 59. widow, Albert Road, Sheffield. G1 5 G.E. Woodcock
Angela
There is an Ellen Woodcock birth registered in 1862 and an Ellen Woodcock registered in 1872.
My question is then is the mother of the Ellen born in 1862 and the same as in 1872?
Is it possible that Ellen born 1862 died and so did her mother and Alfred married another person called Ann, who is the mother to the Ellen born 1872?
I must be receiving a different version of the burial index! Have refreshed the home page, still not there, and not linked from her husband. Just opened another window, she is there but not linked to or from her husband - yet. I think Elaine is at work.
Ann and Alfred's dates are consistent from their baptisms through marriage to burial at Burngreave in 1881 and 1887. In the 1881 census Ellen is with them aged 18. (The "daughter" Anne in that census is actually a granddaughter, different mmn.)
John, you may be interested that this Ellen was a 2nd cousin to your Ellen mentioned a few months ago. Sally
Sally, that is interesting do you know where the common link is then please.
Its ages since I have looked at that tree, I might have to get back into it.
The grave where Eliza is buried, have you checked to see if there is a headstone>
John
Hi Sally, You will have to bear with me as "Host Papa" have decided to re vamp their access page and I can't get into it.
Mind you not the swiftest techi in the house. LOL.
First let me say St John's Park was not an easy church to transcribe. I no longer have the originals they were on fiche. Soooooooo unless someone else comes up with another transcription I can't help.
Ellen Woodcock born in 1872 MMN of Ward.
Ellen Woodcock born in 1862 MMN of Gillam.
Rose Ellen you would need to see the original to work it out.
Now to Eliza Hannah Woodcock burial 1895.
She is there in our database.....but unfortunately she was transcribed as Eliza H.
Woodcock.
Note the period which I will remove once I can get into the site and then all should be well.
Elaine in Ottawa.
Elaine, sorry but forsome reason my system will not send emails to you.
The reason Eliza H Woodstock is not linking to her husband on Find Similar in Same grave is because she has a trailing space on the word Norton.
Dave
Hi Elaine,
Gillam is the correct mmn. They were married at Rotherham All Saints', 18 Jul 1845. I can see four possible local Woodcock/Ward marriages from 1866 back to 1851 so the other birth could be from any of those. As I said, the age at burial is consistent with Ann being too old. I presume the fiche are at Sheffield Archives so I will try to get to see those and report back in due course. (I usually only get to Sheffield on Fridays when they are closed but will try to organise another day.)
Well I seem to have winkled out a spurious period and a trailing space! So it was a worthwhile exercise. Many thanks.
Sally
Hi John, If you go back to my message of 1 May 2023 under "Richard Fox born 1875" at the end there is a list of six baptisms. First one John was father of James and grandfather of your Ellen. Last one Peter was father of Alfred and grandfather of this Ellen.
However I had become confused about Peter because there were two Peter Woodcocks around who both died in 1859 and both were married to a Hannah. The ages of these Peters do not always agree & I need to study it more. This one was was a tailor in High Street and married first to Sarah Hollis, had 4 sons: Alfred, William, Thomas & Henry. She died in 1832 & he remarried in 1837 to Hannah Hallam.
I know Alfred was a cousin of James because of a newspaper account of the funeral of Thomas; Sheff. Indep. 15 May 1899. It mentions brothers William and Henry, cousin James, also Mrs. Jeffery, Oldale, Steward and Nutbrown, nieces, I had been trying to work out who they were. They were the 4 daughters of Alfred, listed in age order. Mrs Jeffery was the mother of Rose Ellen, my other baptism query. Ellen married Benjamin Nutbrown.
Have I lost you yet?
I don't have much prospect of getting to Derbyshire Lane soon, though I might sometime. Sally
Sally, I have photographed the headstones at Norton, Could you remind me of your email address please so I can send them you.
It was a very dangerous location but I have done my best to get the images.
John
Sally, if you can work out who the people are I would be grateful as no one on with a name beginning with M is showing up in plot 5.
The headstone showing James and Mary is in the grave next to the ones with J W T W E W M W.
I think these are Thomas and wife Elizabeth and John and Mary, Thomas's parents.
Your thoughts.
John
Thank you very much John. Email attached. That plot no 5 in G1 is the same one I have been asking about re Eliza Hannah. I didn't actually say that William (Steel Manager) was James' brother, they must have acquired adjacent plots. William and Eliza H were buried 1889 and 1895 but their initials are not there. Elizabeth and Thomas (son of James) were buried 1918 and 1932. Who erected the stone? Did they also add initials of a previous generation?
Sally
Sally, Eliza H Woodcock is now correctly connected to her husband through Find similar in same grave. Thanks Denise.
Dave
Sally perhaps they are there but either the letters have eroded away or they might be elsewhere on the headstone that due to the undergrowth we cant see.
As I said it its very unsteady around that area and the headstone for James and Mary is actually on top of the plot 5 section so perhaps that is what is covering the information up.
.
Thank you Dave for spotting the problem, and thanks to Elaine who has presumably now been allowed in to do her job.
That may be the answer, we cannot see it all. John W cannot actually be there because the cemetery was not open and James' mother Mary W died 21 Apr 1873 at Trafalgar Street (James' house at his works), aged 77. That information is from Sheffield Independent 26 Apr, p12, but I have not found a burial. They did not move out to Norton until some time later, but before the 1881 census.
I will also mention that the name GE Woodcock in the records of the FHS was George Edmund, eldest child of William and Eliza.
Sally
Back to my original baptism queries at the top of this thread. I finally got to Sheffield Archives today and viewed the original volumes.
1. Ellen Woodcock. There is clearly an error in the register which cannot be corrected.
On 6 Nov 1872 there were 15 baptisms at St John's, Park, conducted by a visiting minister "Arthur Braithwaite Curate of St. Simon". One of the pages is mistakenly headed
"Sheffield (St. Simons)" but the rest have St John.
They appear to have been rounding up the unbaptised. Of the 15 baptisms, 5 were born before 1872, the dates of birth ranging from 1861 onwards. For Ellen there has been a mistake writing up this event, so actually there were 6 born before 1872, for the reasons I gave before.
2. Rose Ellen Jeffrey. There were no baptisms on 1 Jan 1878 nor 1879. I searched through the register for the surname and found the entry on 1 August 1878, six weeks after her birth, so that one does need correcting please.
Sally
Hi Sally,
Thanks for checking it out for us.
I transcribed most of St John Park from fiche and it was hard going. That was a number of years ago now.
What may have thrown me was an abbreviated Aug that I took for Jan. I could have throttled the Vicar/clerk when I was transcribing it. LOL.
It will be changed either by myself or Denise.
Elaine.
Thank you Elaine. I mentioned to one of the staff they had been transcribed from fiche and she was surprised you had not been offered the originals for that job.
It seems the mass baptism event was not the only one, there was one in 1880 which was many pages. I am wary because years ago I came across similar at St. John's, Masbrough, when three brothers were done together, but someone had managed to give their mother different names. I think the clergy could become a bit too busy to check they had all the correct details.
Regards, Sally
Hi Sally,
Just to fill you in on past history of the site.
For many of our early years we worked with Family Search(LDS). We transcribed their material and gave them a copy for allowing us to use it. If it was a church they had filmed they would make a CD giving us a copy for us to transcribe and give them a copy of the transcription. If it was a church they had copied and placed on Fiche they could not transfer the material to a CD. That is why I worked with the fiche. Most of the church material in Sheffield was on FICHE. The quality was very questionable
Don't forget I am in Canada. So no access to Sheffield Archives UNTIL our current photographer Terry Ford came on BOARD to help us. He just about lives at the Archives. LOL.
That means we no longer have to deal with Family Search.
We have quite a Library of material to be transcribed and have three projects in the pipeline at this time.
Hope this helps clear up your issues.
ELAINE
WOODCOCK, ELLEN WARD
GRO Reference: 1872 D Quarter in SHEFFIELD Volume 09C Page 435 WOODCOCK, ELLEN GILLAM
GRO Reference: 1862 S Quarter in SHEFFIELD Volume 09C Page 348