G'day

I can't seem to find any Banns records for John's marriage.

Family Search shows a marriage record 29 December 1872
Crookes St Thomas to Helen Cocker. I don't know that it's correct and figure if I found Banns I could see his date of birth and parents.

John was born 28.8.1837 son of John & Sarah Harrop of West Street (Dad's a builder)

Maybe Banns had stopped by then?

The index records are not much help because they don't show parents.

Any help is welcome

cheers
Leisa

The banns for that marriage are on FMP. Alternatively you could purchase the certificate from GRO
Dave

Hi

Banns are still read today, they do not give the parents names.

The marriage was at Sheffield parish church and John's father is a John Harrop, Tailor.

Angela

Thank you for that information.

John's father is a builder not a tailor.

I use Ancestry UK and I could not find the Banns on there.

cheers

Hi Leisa

The Sheffield parish registers are only on FMP

Angela

Hi Leisa.

There is a marriage announcement in The Sheffield Daily Telegraph, 10 January 1873 for this marriage.

HARROP-COCKER. On the 9th instant at the Sheffield Parish Church, by Rev. Dr. Sale, John Harrop second son of Mr John Harrop of the firm Neill and Harrop, Change Alley, to Helen youngest daughter of Mr James Cocker, Lawson Road, Broomhill and Wicker Wire Works, Blonk St.

This should help you rule out this marriage.

Angela

Harrop, John (of Sheffield, born 1837-08-28).
Baptised September 20, 1837, by E Goodwin at Sheffield Parish Church, Church Street, Sheffield.
Parents name(s) are Sarah & John (Builder).

from our Baptisms over to the left.

The 1841 census index.
Harrop, John of West Street, Sheffield West. Aged 40 years.
(Piece #1338/8, folio 25b, enumeration district 19.)
Harrop, John of West Street, Sheffield West. Aged 4 years.

Elaine.

Ref the Marriage of John Harrop and Helen Cocker on 29th Dec 1872. The banns of marriage were read at St. Thomas's, Crookes and Sheffield Parish Church (later the Cathedral) on 15th, 22nd and 29th December 1872. The marriage certificate (FMP) states it took place at the Parish Church of Sheffield on 9th January 1873 and states: John Harrop bachelor age 28, of Change Alley, Tailor's Cutter. Father John Harrop, Tailor.
Helen Cocker spinster aged 21 of Lawson Road. Father James Cocker, Manufactuer. Both sign the Register in the presence of James Cocker, John G Cocker, Rebecca M Hutchinson and G B Harrop.

Marriage registration 1st Quarter(J.F.M) Volume 9c Page 415

This is the only Harrop/Cocker marriage to take place in Sheffield in 1872 and 1873.

Hope this helps.
Patricia

Further to the above message John and Helen are on the following census records.

1881 447 Glossop Rd, Sheffield John...Master Tailor, Helen..Tailor's wife & two sons Frank age 5 and John C age 3
1891 113 Manchester Road, Sheffield John...Merchant Tailor,...Helen..wife, Frank 15...John C 13

If the John Harrop as you say was a Builder then it would appear he wasn't the John that married Helen.

John and Helen's marriage is on Ancestry if you put in the year 1873 and not 1872.
Hope this helps,
Patricia

This maybe John's parents, HARROP, John (Bachelor, age ~, ~, residing at of this Parish).
Married Sarah Smith DRAKE, on May 24, 1828, by Edwd Goodwin (Licence) at
Sheffield Parish Church, Church Street, Sheffield. Father's name is ~ (~). The GRO index does not show mothers maiden name? 1851 census shows. John Harrop
Father
Name John Harrop
Sex Male
Age 55
Event Date 1851
Event Place Sheffield, Yorkshire,Yorkshire (West Riding), England
Registration District Sheffield
Residence Note West Street
Birth Year (Estimated) 1796
Birthplace Sheffield, Yorkshire
Marital Status Married
Occupation Joiner & Builder
Relationship to Head of Household Head
Event Type Census
Page Number 3
Piece/Folio 2338 / 544
Registration Number HO107
Sarah Harrop
Mother The other children show Drake as mothers name.

Could this be an alternative marriage? Name John Harrop
Age 26
Residence Place Pitsmoor
Birth Date 1837
Marital Status B
Occupation Clerk
Father's Name John Harrop
Father's Sex Male
Father's Occupation Builder
Spouse's Name Jane Hodgkinson
Spouse's Age 30
Spouse's Residence Place Pitsmoor
Spouse's Birth Date 1833
Spouse's Marital Status Widowed
Witness Name Thos Morris
Witness 2 Name Susannah Aby
Marriage Date 28 Sep 1863
Marriage Place Pitsmoor, Yorkshire, England, United

I think you have the correct marriage record. Someone has added incorrect marriage on my tree on Family Search, mind you I went down the rabbit hole yesterday removing incorrect information because it throws up wrong hints.

Can't be too many John Harrop builder about I hope.
His workshop was on the corner of West Street and Rockingham street. There is a kebab shop there now and the cobbled yard is still there. That was a few years ago when I saw it though.

In 1851 census John jnr was still living in West Street and no doubt moved to a new home when he got married.

Thank you so much for that information - it's been a huge help for me. It's great to get the information you ask for advice on.
cheers
Leisa

G'day Angela
As stated above Dad was a builder so that marriage is incorrect
cheers

Hi Leisa et al,
I too was following the same track as Barry White with John Harrop (26yrs) marrying 28th Sept/1863 to Jane Hodgkinson (30yrs 1833)(WIDOW).
The question is: what is Jane's maiden name..??

Over to your left under burials, Jane Harrop died Sept 1872, age 42 (est:B1830) and is buried with presumably her first husband John Hodgkinson who died the 7th Jan/1862 age 30 (B1832..?) He was a commercial traveller in Groceries, Jane is the owner of the plot.

I have tried a number of tacks to solve the identity of Jane but without any success as yet, maybe our expert sleuths can solve the puzzle.
HAPPY HUNTING:sleuth_or_spy:

Hi Leisa,

Did you already see the map on picturesheffield.com showing his building plot?
And his share certificate for the circus and theatre?

Heths

No I didn't Heather. I will see if I can find the site. I think it's a bookface page isn't it? Mind you I dont know that I can find it on the site when I don't really know what Im looking for ha ha

On the 1871 census there are no kids living in Upper H...something street
Jane born in Nottinghamshire

In my hints there is a death index for Jane Harrop born abt 1834 and died 1884 September quarter. I don't know if thats her.

I've not done any research on Jane and thought I'd seen something where she was listed as widow when she married John. Buggered if I can find that now.

I'd hoped that some one on here would be able to find me a copy of the banns and email them to me.

John is in Norton Cemetery which if its the one where the church is then that is around the corner from my cousin's house in Norton and I've been to that gorgeous little church with the hairy cows next door. A number of my ancestors were married, baptised and buried there but alas graves no longer showing.

Not sure if any of that helps you. My tree on ancestry is public

cheers

Hi Leisa et al,
The 1871 Census you refer to has Jane Harrop age 38 (B.1832/33..?? at Kirklington.??,Nottinghamshire. and yes, Jane Hodgkinson was recorded as a widow when they married in 1863 (ref: Family Search website)

The 1861 Census has Jane Hodgkinson age 33 (B:1828..?? Edingley, Nottinghamshire). Residing at Talbot House, Talbot Street, Sheffield.
Also on the 1861 census(apart from her husband John Hodgkinson age 28(B:1833..?? Wirksworth Dbys._) is a daughter, Hannah E. Hodgkinson age 12 (B:1849..?? born Macclesfield, Cheshire) plus a servant.
There is a possible marriage for a Jane (Wright..??) to John Hodgkinson in 1856 Sept.qtr. Ecclesall Bierlow. John was a commercial traveler in groceries and died 7th, January, 1862, age 30 at Talbot St. (Ref.S.I. over to your left).
Jane Harrop is in the same grave and died 1872 age 42.
There is a possible re-marriage for JOHN HARROP to Sarah Reardon in 1877 Sept.qtr. Ecc.B. JOHN HARROP possibly died in Jan, 1912 age 73/74 buried at Norton Cem. (Ref: over to your left S.I. Burials)

Back to my former question in my previous post:
what was the maiden name of Jane..??
After further digging, I found two 1841 records on Ancestry.com
#1 JANE WRIGHT age 14 (B:abt.1827 Nottinghamshire), Residence: Thurgarton, Edingley Parish.,living with her parents and a large number of siblings.
#2 JANE WRIGHT age 10 (B:abt.1831 Notts.) Residence: Thurgarton, Edingley Parish living with Edward Harpham and family as an F.S. (female servant..??).
I think the Jane in these two records are one and the same.
HAPPY HUNTING:sleuth_or_spy:

Heather

I do not know the site you refer to so I had a look and it's an archive website with no ability to search that I could find. If you have a link to the photo and map you mention can you please email it to me?

I live in Western Australia so no chance of visiting any archive in Sheffield.

cheers
Leisa

Hi Leisa

John Harrop: age 40 married Sarah Reardon age 32, 18th Dec 1877, at St Barnabas Church, Highfield.

Residence given for both: 14 Clough Road,Highfield
Grooms father: John Harrop (deceased) occupation Builder.
Spouse`s father: Michael Reardon occupation Civil Servant.
Witness 1 Samuel Brown.
Witness 2 William Boot.

Will

Heather, I trawled the website you advised and found nothing about John Harrop on there. I'd really like to see the certificate and map you mentioned. Can you please send to my email?
cheers
Leisa

https://picturesheffield.com/

Put John Harrop in search box. It gives 6 answers. you want 2 of those answers
Dave

Finally found the elusive surname of Jane. Her last name is Foster. I found the marriage index for her and husband 1.

I thought some of you might like to know the answer to the conundrum.

Thank you for Harrop's second marriage details that I can now add to my tree.

cheerio