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John Henry Whiteley died in 1907 age 45 (burial on here)hence giving a birth of 1862.
John Henry Whiteley married in Sheffield on 1st 1882 Sarah Ann Taylor age given 22 (so birth 1860?) and gives his father as Henry Whiteley (deceased)
On the 1881 census he was a lodger.
My question is could anyone on here help me trace his parents? I have not found him on the 1871 or 1861 census. The 1881, 1891 &1901 census states he was born in Sheffield.
I did think a few weeks back I had found the birth as John Henry Race Whiteley as on the GRO it gave MMN blank and a Henry Race married a Sarah Ann Whiteley (ie possible parents) but I know this is not correct as J H R Whiteley died in 1936 I think.
My opinions now are that Henry Whiteley was not his father but as his name is John Henry Whiteley why would that not be the case and my other opinion is perhaps he wasn't born in Sheffield but he thought he was.
Sarah Ann Taylor by the was was born in London.
Any help appreciated please as this has been a brick wall for a very long time and there was a family funeral last year and no one knows the answer to the above and they would love to know.
Regards
John
Hi John, There is a record of John Henry Whiteley baptism 21 Septmber 1862 St Peter's C of E Liverpool born 24 February 1862. Father Charles Hixon Whiteley mother Betsy. The GRO shows a birth for John 1862 West Derby mother Batho. There is a marriage of Charles Whiteley to Betsy Batho July 1859 West Derby. There is a census record showing they were in Leeds 1871. regards Barry
Thanks for your reply Barry. Could be a lead I shall have to see if I can find any clues to it being the correct one.
Do not think this is correct Charles Hickson Whiteley died after 1882.
Hi John, Found a birth for Sheffield 3q 1862 John Henry Whitely mother Donaldson. Could have been misspelt? Cannot find a Marriage for Charles with a Donaldson maybe a widow? Regards Barry
Thank you Barry. I am now beginning to wonder if he was born a Whitely (sic) and took his surname after his mother married. I think there could be more to this then meets the eye now.
John
Hi John & Barry,
There is a baptism with image on Family Search website for
Johanes Henrices (John Henry..?)
Born 20 June 1862 baptized: 30 July, 1862
at St.Marie's R.C. Church in Sheffield.
Parents: Gulielmi (William..??) and
Mariannae (Marian/Mary Ann...??) Donaldson
Godparents: Martinus (Martin..?) & Julia Healy..??
The FamilySearch image that comes up is on page 34, go back to page 33 and you will find it.
Type in: Johanes Henricus Whitely or just John Henry WHITELY
HAPPY HUNTING:sleuth_or_spy:
Hi Wendy & John,
We transcribed St Maries covering..........
St Maries, Sheffield - Dec 12, 1840 to Jun 13, 1948
BUT the entry you found is not showing in our database.
Whats even stranger is, this was one of the churches the the LDS gave us copies to transcribe
and we gave then it back with a copy of the transcription.
This not helping you John, but I like to follow through why its not showing up in our (S.I.) search. I have tried Whiteley/Whitely at St Maries and still not there.
Must go turn it up on Family Search and see where our problem could be.
Thanks Wendy.
Elaine in Ottawa.
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Hi Elaine,
It IS in the SI data base, I just typed in WHITELY
Whitely, Johanes Henricus (of ~, born 1862-06-20).
Baptised July 30, 1862, by P.G. Kennedy M.C. at St Maries, Sheffield Centre.
Parents name(s) are Marianna Donaldson & Gulielmi (~).
Note:
Godparents: Martinus Healy Julia Healy :Page No 46 :Reg No ~
Tony
Thanks Tony,
Phew I think we missed the bullet.
I now remember that the CD of the originals registers where not always photogtaphed in order date wise.
Wendy mentioned that the page was page 33 yet our orig copy shows page 46.
That I will have a look tomorrow as I am sure I am going to need a clear head for it.
Thanks again.
Elaine in Ottawa.
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Thank you for the feedback, are we presuming then that the father named as Henry on his marriage certificate is a red herring?
Morning folks.
I have looked at my St Maries DVD and as suspected had fun (not) trying to find Page 46 for the 1862 period.
I did not find the actual page but I did find the index. What we have in the database is what is in the index. I then switched to Family Search and as Wendy stated a photocopy of the actual baptisms is there. I was able to see that the index and entry in Family Search is exactly what we have.
The page in the baptismal register is page 46 as we have and the IMAGE is 33 on Family search site.
To JohnS are you sure this is the correct guy you are researching? There is a John Henry listed same birth year and I believe its in Barnsley.
IT's the spelling that can cause the headache with this chap. Another is were any of the children born to the one you have baptised as Catholics????
Elaine in Ottawa.
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Elaine, thanks agian for you valuable input in 1901 on the census he was listed as John Whiteley living at Bard Street with his family if you take a look at it you can see the children. There is another one George Frederick Whiteley born 1901 and the baptism is on this site baptised at St John's Park
Hi Tony, Elaine et al,
I should have given more detail from the image on Family Search because looking at S.I. transcription it gives a slight impression the family name was Donaldson whereas on the FS imgage it says:
Gulielmi and Mariannae Whitely (nee Donaldson)
and I believe it said they were married (conjugum) but I cannot find a marriage for them or anymore children..?? Did Marian die..?? if so did William remarry,,?? or visa versa.
After writing this, I have just read your latest comment Elaine but I think comments above are still relevant.
HAPPY HUNTING:sleuth_or_spy:
Hi Wendy,
The RC records are set up slightly different from the C of E ones. We use the same template.
Mothers maiden names were entered. (Donaldson) in this case. The (~) Tilde at the side of Guliemi name means there was NO surname there. BUT the fact the baby was entered under Whitely would seem to imply that Williams surname was Whitely. BUT maybe we shouldn't presume. LOL.
Elaine.
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One of the children on the 1901 census is called Ethel.
The GRO index reads.
WHITELEY, ETHEL MAY TAYLOR
GRO Reference: 1896 S Quarter in SHEFFIELD Volume 09C Page 548
The marriage.
rst name(s) John Henry
Last name Whiteley
Age 22
Birth year 1860
Residence 20 West John Street
Marriage year 1882
Marriage date 01 Oct 1882
Marriage place Sheffield, Cathedral Church of St Peter & St Paul
Spouse's first name(s) Sarah Ann
Spouse's last name Taylor
Spouse's age 24
Spouse's residence 8 West John Lane
Father's first name(s) Henry
Father's last name Whiteley
Spouse's father's first name(s) James
Spouse's father's last name Taylor
On this certificate his father is listed as Henry so I would suggest you need to look for another John Henry.
Elaine In Ottawa.
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Elaine, are you therefore suggesting that this is the wrong marriage certificate I have?
Hi John,
First....... which of the children of John Henry is your Ancestor.
I checked the 1901 census as you stated and also the 1891 out. They seem to be the same couple.
Mistakes were made in parish register and certificates.
Is there any link to the RC Church with this family?
Elaine in Ottawa.
Instant Messenger: Skype
The child is George Frederick Whiteley born 1901 he married Annie Elizabeth Hutchinson Sharman on 2nd Aug 1924 at St Luke's Dyer Hill the certificate is on FMP.
George was born after the census was taken.
Hi John et al,
George Frederick Whiteley who would have been 10 years old in 1911 does not seem to appear on the 1911 census with his widowed mother Sarah Ann...?? and his other siblings.
GRO for George Frederick Whiteley, B.Reg.:1902 March qtr. Sheffield. mmn: TAYLOR
Is this record below your George Frederick in 1911
GEORGE WHITELEY born 1902 age 9 residence: CHARITY SCHOOL FOR BOYS in south Sheffield..??
HAPPY HUNTING:sleuth_or_spy:
Wendy, thank you for your input. Yes I think it is but I could not work out where he was (need to clean my glasses and go back a few pages) Was a charity school for people whose parents nad not much income or was it because he was a bright kid?
Are you in agreement that the correct marriage for his parents is the one I have for 1882?
John
Hi John et al,
John I believe the Charity School for Boys in Sheffield (sometimes referred to as BlueCoat Schools, were for poor or low income families who could not afford to send their children to school, they were maintained mainly by Parish contributions.
You can find a link over to your left on this site which will also give you a link to Wikipedia with a very good explanation of the schools. Or just Google Sheffield Charity Schools for Boys.
As to the marriage in 1882 of John Henry Whiteley(1862) and Sarah Ann Taylor(abt 1858)yes there is a marriage record on BMD in 1882 Dec quarter in Sheffield but I cannot confirm whether Henry (deceased) which you mentioned was named as the father is correct.
I was working on a theory that maybe the father was William Henry and trying to tie that in with the RC baptism of John Henry Whitely born in 1862 with parents William Whitely and Marianne Donaldson., but it does seem unusual for an RC baptism record not to give all Christian names if they are available.
The only positive I have found to support this theory, is a death record on SI website (to the left)for a Marianne Whiteley (Widow) in 1906 which places her birth around 1839...??
HAPPY HUNTING:sleuth_or_spy:
Hi Wendy & John,
Thats where I was going also.
John had died in 1907 and is buried in City road 9th Feb 1907.
Whiteley, John Henry (table blade forger, age 45).
Died at 5ct 13 Stepney St; Buried on February 9, 1907 in Consecrated ground;
Grave Number 7615, Section V1 of City Road Cemetery, Sheffield.
WHITELEY, George Frederick (Retired, age 77).
Died at 1a Manor Park Crescent; Buried on April 27, 1979 in Consecrated ground;
Grave Number 7615, Section V1 of City Road Cemetery, Sheffield.
Sarah Ann is also in the same grave (1919) along with other children of John & Sarah.
Its looking as if the fathers name on the marriage cert remains the problem.
The charity school I didn't flip back to see where it was but I believe for deserving families his scooling would have been paid for.
The census I have seen for John & Ann state they were both from Sheffield. I am sure I also saw an early census were there was a Whiteley & Taylor Family living side by side.
Its still a puzzle.
Elaine in Ottawa.
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I wonder if you could be onto something regarding Henry being the middle name but John Henry did not know this perhaps because his father never used his first name and of course the vicar would only put down what he was told I presume.
In 1901 census he was just entered as John Whiteley living at Bard Street. Will try and find a burial for the father as suggested earlier to see what that shows up.
John
Hi John,
Following on from your last message I wonder....
Whiteley, William (Table Blade Forger, age 64).
Died at 6ct Parkhill Lane; Buried on October 10, 1885 in Consecrated ground;
Grave Number 12438, Section X of City Road Cemetery, Sheffield.
Parent or Next of Kin if Available: . Remarks: .
Most of the census information I looked at for John Henry they seemed to be in the Park area.
Thats one of the reasons I checked this chap out plus he was also a Table Balde Forger as was John Henry.
I am using our burial index. & the S&DFHS many burial disks.
WHITELEY, William (, died on ?, at the age of 61y).
Resided at Trinity Street and buried on 11 Aug 1865 in ? ground;
Grave Number ?, Section ? of St Michael Cemetery, Rivelin.
The above just incase they were RC's
Will now check for a Henry.
Elaine.
Instant Messenger: Skype
Hi Elaine et al,
Of the two, it is more likely to be the second William who died 1865. Because the Henry that John referred to at the marriage in 1882 was already deceased.
HAPPY HUNTING:sleuth_or_spy:
Who would I contact please regarding St Michaels cemetery at Rivelin? Has anyone photogarphed the headstones there please?
John,
They have a nice website at www.saintmichaelscemetery.org which has a PDF of burial records available. There's some contact details on the website.
Cheers,
Andrew P.
Thank you Andrew
William Whiteley buied PAT section T 19, please could someone kindly tell me how I would use this information on the cemetery maps that are on this site.
Thanks in advance
John
Hi JohnS,
Just for future reference if you look over to the left under MI's you will see a contact person for St Michaels Cemetery.
I wonder after looking at the cemtery plan for St Michaels if the T should actually be a J for St Joseph. The index we use for the cemetery was not transcribed by us so I can't check if its correct or not. It was given to me by the person compiling the burials but has sinced passed on himself.
If you contact the person either listed in the MI or the parish priest I beleive he goes by father Ted.
Not an easy cemetery to navigate in as its built on a very steep hillside as the photo's I took 16 years ago can attest to.
Elaine in Ottawa.
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