I have a wonderful picture of a wedding group probably around 1909 - 1914. The group is well dressed and the groom, best man and father are holding top hats and wearing white ties. They are outside what I think is a chapel rather than a church.They are in front of the doorway, which seems to have a few steps up to it, and stained glass windows on the wall at right angles to the door. There are houses right up to the building and there doesn't seem to be a graveyard or any grounds at all. There is a square metal hoop attached to the corner of the building quite high up.

By the fact that this picture was in our family "archives" I think we must somehow be related but I don't know how. Are there places where I could post the picture and see if anyone recognizes either the people or the building? Would love to know more about them!

Ann, please send the picture to me and I shall post it here.
Dave

Here is a link to Ann's picture.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lummmzk4tsq1tpa/May%20wedding%201900s.png?dl=0

It is a good quality picture so can be blown up0.
Ann please tell us all you have. Do you know it is Sheffield?. Is there any info on the back of the photo?

PS I hope the link works. If not let me know.
Dave

Edit An observation: behind the lady on the far left there is a steep rocky bank and on top of that are steps going down from left to right

Here's what I have so far with input from another forum...

May or may not be my family although it would be unusual for a nonrelative to have a photograph as they were expensive.

Confident this is Sheffield as the photographer is A.W. (Arthur William) Rideout of 88 Burngreave Road,Sheffield (on the matte of the photo.There is no information on the back of the picture.). He moved to this location sometime between 1905 and 1909 and is shown at that address in the 1911 census. He died in 1921.

Wedding party is well dressed – top hats, gloves, white tie and a frock coat for the groom, top hats for best man and two other men. Three of the men are wearing a formal upright collar with the white tie. Wedding and bridesmaid dresses are fashionable, and bouquets are substantial. Implies a reasonably well to do family.

By the usual structure of a wedding group the bride’s family are to her left and the groom’s to his right.

None of the people are in uniform implying pre or post WWI. Photographer dates give an estimated time period of after 1909 and before 1921 leaving two possible time periods 1909-1914 or 1919-1921. The clothing, especially the bride’s headdress and the dresses of the older women might indicate the pre war time period but not conclusive.

Likely to be a Chapel rather than a church. There does not appear to be a graveyard and there are houses right up to the building. There is a distinctive metal square hoop attached to the corner of the building above the wedding party – use unknown. Sheffield was heavily bombed during WWII and the building may no longer exist. “stonework is similar to Norton Lees (but not the layout), which was built in the 1870s”

All ideas appreciated!

Ann, good research, thank you.
I can only offer two observations. Based on the other buildings, the steep slope to the left and what few shadows there are. I believe we are looking at the back of the building. Perhaps that is the vestry door. If I am right then the alter is through the leaded window to the right.
There may be steps, but it is possible the people at the back are on a bench or similar. One is holding on to the person in front of her.
I therefore think you are looking for a stone church with a steep slope up at the back and houses close by to the right as viewed from the front.
Dave

Hard enough to find photos of the front of a church let alone the back! Good observation though and it would be a more private place for the photograph which I assume would take some time.

Ann, this is not only an affluent wedding, it is in an affluent area. The houses in the left background are very large and they are distinctive in that they have skylights. That must be rare in that period.
Also, judging by the large shadow cast on those houses there is a building to the left of and behind the photographer. That must be on top of the hill, and those steps must lead up to it
Dave

Hi Ann,

Burngreave Road used to be a well off area of Sheffield.

You mention that it could be a Methodist Chapel.

There are 12 Chapels listed in the Burngreave area ( The Small Guide to Nonconformist Chapels in Sheffield). A little light just went on. Of those 12 I wonder how many were licensed to perform marriages in 1900. Will have look and let you know. i.e. not many were performing marriage in 1900. BUT will ask Angela Treweek who is very knowledgeable on these matters.

I must admit the church I attended (C of E) had something like that entryway.

You entered through a small enclosed porch, turned right and entered the church. The area was where the font was situated right at the back of the church. A long center isle down to the chancel.

Regards.

Elaine in Ottawa.

Instant Messenger: Skype

Just observations....

Could the Square Hoop be what is left of an old gas lamp?

The steps that Dave noted could be a wall separating the property.

Sheffield is so very hilly that a next door neighbors could be set well above one another.

Is it also possible that the church/chapel is fairly new and they never removed the earth from when the footings were dug.

Skylights were quite common in Sheffield my parents home had one and it was built in 1898.
Usually for the attic.

AS the saying goes.....Might be nowt nor summat to it all.

Elaine in Ottawa.

Instant Messenger: Skype

Hello
Could this be St Cuthberts Church, Page Hall?
Just a suggestion .

Regards
Chris

Marriages
From 1837, marriages could take place in a local register office, instead of a church.
A new type of marriage register was introduced for all marriage ceremonies.

The Church of England, Jews and Quakers could conduct and register their own marriage ceremonies.

Other denominations (Methodists, Baptists, Unitarians etc) had to apply for their chapels to be licensed to conduct marriages and could only conduct a ceremony there if a Registrar was also present, in addition to the minister, to record the events in a Register Office marriage register.

This did not change till 1898.

Angela

Just had a look at my Alan Godfrey Map for Burngreave Ward 1905.

Not that many chapels BUT one looks very interesting. It states it is a Methodist Chapel and sits at the junction of Petre St- Sutherland St & Harleston St.

Its a square building with a jut out at the back which is very close to Terraced Houses on
Sutherland & Harleston St. In the Small Guide (S&DFHS) I can not see a Chapel that lists either of those streets.

It could be that we are way off track just looking at Burngreave.

Elaine in Ottawa.

NOTE. Petre Street Chapel Burngreave Sheffield 4. (Primitive Methodist)

First marriages noted in 1932 to 1968

So few of the Methodist Chapels seem to have marriages prior to the 1920's.

Instant Messenger: Skype

My known family were C of E - the chapel possibility was a suggestion more about the building than the family. Given the information that there weren't many chapel marriages in the early 1900s it could be a church.

It looks like the groom's family are more well off than the bride's judging by the ladies dresses and hats so I'm guessing that we would be related on the brides side (based on my research so far the family is solidly working class but not poor). I wonder who paid for the wedding and if it was his church or hers.

The bride looks to be about 20 so born around 1890 which was about when my grandmother was born. I'm sorting through the family tree to see if there are any eligible women and where they were in 1911 assuming that if it was her church/chapel it would help with the location.

So appreciating your help and your knowledge.

Ann
Comox, BC, Canada

Just an idea for someone with netter eyesight then me....

If you zoom in on the picture to 1000% on the archway immediately above the door on the left hand side looks like there is some writing. I think I can make ouu a letter E and A and the numbers 8 and 3.

I wonder if this was when the church etc was biult and perhaps the date was 1830 ish

Just a though but probably nothing.

John

The square hoop mystery seems to be solved. Elaine suggested a holder for a gas lamp. Chrisw offered St Cuthberts. There is a picture of St Cuthberts on Picture Sheffield and there are definitely 2 gas lamps on similarly fixed square hoops on that church., even down to a similar doorway with the hoop in the same place. However the wall with leaded Windows to the right is not there.
Dave

Hi Ann,

Do you have a 1901 census of your family that you believe these people could be related too?

What area of the city did they live in.

Elaine in Ottawa

Instant Messenger: Skype

Thank you ChrisW. I am now totally convinced that it is St Cuthberts Fir Vale. Most of the photos on Picture Sheffield show the front of the building, though one shows a tantalising glimpse of the other side. However there is a modern picture Online which shows a glimpse along the other side, and a door exactly like the one we are looking for is there. And the steep topography is there, and on picture Sheffield the fence is there. And of course the square hoops are on the front of the building
PLEASE Is there anyone who lives near there who could photograph it?
Dave

Hi Elaine,
I have 1901 - Brightside, Bradfield and Dyers Hill St Luke (?) 1911 - Eccleshall, Brightside and Sheffield - I need to look more closely at the Sheffield ones.I did see that St. Cuthbert's parish was created in 1901 from Christ Church, Pitsmoor, St. Thomas, Brightside and St. Mary Ecclesfield. The church was built 1901 - 1905. Maybe this is starting to fit!

Ann,
I have just received an email from the church warden at St Cuthberts. She confirms that the photo was taken at her church in a place at the back of the church where they now have a community room. I have forwarded that to you.
Dave
Edit FMP shows that in 1902 there were 3 marriages at St Cuthberts increasing to 21 in 1903 and 22 in 1904.

Thank you so much everyone that helped with this detective work! It's wonderful to have a location and now I'm working on exploring the marriages for the time period. There are not that many so hopefully I will be able to connect to one of them. I'll let you know if/when I get a direct hit.
Thanks again, much appreciated and I hope you have as much success with your research.
Ann
Comox,BC,Canada

And special thanks to ChrisW who particularly identified the church for us. Wonderful work and knowledge. So much progress in such a short time!
Ann
Comox,BC,Canada

Hi Ann
You are very welcome I have had a lot of help from the wonderful people on this site
It was just a shot in the dark as a looong time ago I was a bridesmade at St Cuthberts it was the houses on the back of the photo that gave me the clue

Happy Hunting
Chris