I was wondering if anyone has any Derbshire Kellys between 1901 and 1921.

In 1901 William Gordon a house painter was living in Buxton and in 1911 was living at Shop Yard, Stakholmes, MATLOCK.

I am trying to find out when he moved from Buxton to Matlock and I am also trying to work out where he was born because on the 1901 census it says born Keswick and in 1911 it says born London hence the great problem I am having in tracing his birth. Not even with the name John Mozon (I think this should be Mason) Gordon as a father on the marriage cert of 1896 is helping me.

Just wondering if the local directoies might enlighten me to solving his whereabouts.

Thanks in advance

John

Hi John,
If you check where his children were baptised and registered it pins him down a little.
Mabel Ida was registered in quarter 3 1898 at Buxton and baptised on 25th July 1898 at Fairfield, Buxton
Marjorie was registered in quarter 2 1900 at Buxton and baptised on 6th June 1900 at Burbage, Buxton.
Evelyn was registered in quarter 3 1905 at Matlock and baptised on 11th November 1906 at the Anglican church in Matlock.
I've not found any deceased children of the family who were born 1900 - 1904 that would narrow the removal down further.

The 1908 Matlock Kelly's Directory is transcribed here:
https://www.andrewsgen.com/matlock/dir20c/kelly1908_mcom.htm
but I don't see any Gordons, either private or business.

Cheers, Ted

Ted, thank you for your reply and the baptism dates of which I had not got the baptism dates. Were they on FMP?

This tree I am doing is for a friend and she is a baffled as me regarding William's palce of birth on 1901 and 1911 census. I haven't and neither has Moira been able to find him on the 1891 census of before.

I am hoping the 1921 census when its released will give better info to help trace him. But as the men of the Gordon family did not use their first name I am just wondering if the same applies here ie when Joseph William Gordon b 1896 married hemarried under the name William Gordon and named his father as William but did this William have another name? This is a real brick wall and I have been trying to solve it for nearly 15 yrears

Hi John,
Yes all the baptisms/births are on FMP. The surname Moson appears in Cumberland, so the Keswick connection looks likely.
Ted

Ted thank you for that info regarding Moson. Had not found anyone called that as a surname, I had been spelling it with a "Z" though. time to have another look at thr GRO index then.

The name Moson occurs 327 times in England and Wales Censuses. Only 10 are in Cumbria.
89 are in Lancashire, 50 in Yorkshire, 47 in London. This last figure increases to 77 if you include Essex and Surrey. IF Moson is genuine and not a transcription error then it is more likely to be from London than from Cumbria.
With regard to the 1901 and 1911 censuses there is a big difference in the documents. The 1911 was filled in by William himself, and signed by him. The 1901 is a transcription by the enumerator from a lost original which may or may not have been filled in by William.
John, do you please know the occupation of William's claimed father John Moson Gordon?
Dave

Edit. Free bmd has only 32 Moson records between 1837 and 1910. I think it is safe to assume it is most often a transcription error for Mason or Moxon

29th Feb 1896 at the Parish Church Buxton:-

William Gordon 30 Painter living at Buxton father John Mozon Gordon Painter

married

Mary Hannah Needham 29 no occupation line under where residing father Joseph Needham coal Manager

This info is taken from the marriage cert

John

Hence the confusion about the middle name.

John,
1851 census Marylebone, John GORDEN 33 and his wife Sarah 34.Both born Scotland. JOHN IS A HOUSE PAINTER.
I believe there is a birth 1863 Marylebone for a William Gordon on gro index.
Dave

Edit, oops the birth in 1863 marylebone was illegitimate.

Dave, I like the 1851 census showing John aged 33 a house painter. What info did you put in FMP to find this please? I wonder if we could find this family on the 1861 census to see if there was a William.

When William died in 1925 the age was registered as 65 I know I have the correct death cert because of the name of the informant etc.

John

John, I used G*rd*n for surname and put Painter in optional keyword.

Who was the person who registered William's death please?
William's age is a mystery. On marriage 1896 he declared born 1866, 1901 the same, 1911 was 1863, and on death the person registering said 1860. His wifes age is absolutely consistent throughout, born 1867.
I wonder if William was a lot older than her but lied about his age.
Dave

William's death was registered by F Cowlishaw his son in law. He was married to Marjorie Gordon. My intention one day is to go to Stakholmes near Matlock to see if there is a headstone for him or if the church have any records.

Some more suggestions for you, John.

On 1891 Census: William L Gordon 24 year old decorator born in Scotland, a boarder at 21 Goldney Road, Paddington, London

On 1881 Census: William L Gordon born in Aberdeen 15 year old son of John Gordon 43 year old Insurance agent and Jessie Gordon 42 , parents both born at Huntly Aberdeenshire, living at 63 Carrick Street Glasgow. Siblings present are Jeanie G (b 1865), Frances Elizabeth (b 1870),Robert Shiells (b 1873), Jessie (b 1874)

John Gordon and Jessie Innes were married at Huntly Aberdeenshire on 14th June 1862.

William Logie Gordon was born in Old Machar Aberdeen in 1866, son of John Gordon and Jessie Innes.

On 1871 Census: William L Gordon 5 year old son of John Gordon 34 year old Commercial Traveller and Jesse 33, both born Huntly are living at 195 George Street Aberdeen. Siblings also present are James Innes (7), Jane G (6)and Fracis E (1). James baptism notes that he is the son of John M Gordon and Jesse Innes.

On 1861 Census John Gordon 23 year old Commercial Traveller (Soft Goods) born in Huntley, is a boarder at Skene Street Old Machar Aberdeen.

On 1851 Census: John Gordon 13 year old is living with father William, farmer of 120 acres with 4 labourers and 2 servants, and mother Jane, at Dumbennan (farm) Huntly, Strathbogie

On 1851 Census: Jessie Innes, future wife of John Gordon, is living with father James a plasterer and mother jane, at Deveron Street Huntly.

Cheers, Ted

Ted, Many thanks for the info, I shall have to print it off and have a real study at this because I think you might be onto something here. I like the look of the info about James baptism and the John M Gordon link.

I just wonder William (the person we are looking for)did not know where he was born or perhaps even when.

His father being a commercial traveller makes sense about why they were all over the country and I wonder if William just told the registrar Painter by mistake.

It would also make sense why I can't find a John M Gordon on the GRO index of England and Wales because of the Scottish link. I wonder if Keswick on the 1891 census might in fact be Kelso what do you think?

John

Hi John,
I think the Keswick- Kelso switch is a long reach. But if William always put the last place he was living down, instead of birthplace (eg he stated "London") maybe he was in Keswick before the 1901 Census, on his way down from Scotland?
Ted

be interesting what he put down in 1921 when the census comes out in 18 months time

John, please, who were the witnesses at the 1896 marriage of William to Mary Hannah.
Dave

The witnesses to the marriage were Joseph Needham (think that was her father) and an Ada Wells not sure on her at all.

John,
Joseph was more likely her younger brother, but either way he was her witness. There are very few possibilities for Ada Wells, and most likely is one who was a domestic cook in the area in 1901. She would have been 17 in 1896. Note that Mary Needham was a domestic cook. That makes it look like she was also Marys witness, so William probably had no relative or friend as witness
So no clue there as to his origins
As you say, hopefully 1921 census will help.
Have you considered he may have wanted to conceal his true past? He was old enough to have been already married.
Dave

Ted, I sent the info you posted about William to my friend whose tree I am doing and she thinks it could be quite feasable as she remembers her grandfather ( Joseph William born 1896) talking to her about a Scottish connection so I am going to persue that line to see what else we can find.

I know William was 30 when he married Mary but she was 29 so I am wondering did they marry because she was expecting and I also now wonder come to think of it could there be any more children ie did Mary have any out of wedlock say between 1891 and 1896. I must look at my notes to see whereshe was in 1891.

John

Ted what made you think of your solution about William Logie Gordon? I am going to buy some more credits on the Scottish Peolple website and purchase a copy of his birth cert to see what it says.

John

Hi John,

I found the 1891 Census: William L Gordon 24 year old decorator born in Scotland, a boarder at 21 Goldney Road, Paddington, London so then went looking for him in Scotland, mainly the Aberdeen area.There are plenty (too many?) of Gordons in that area - in 1449 at Huntly Castle the Gordon clan defeated the invading Douglas clan.

Thanks Ted, so you looked for a Gordon, never thought about putting in decorator as I had put in the word painter. It does though make sense how he could have ended up in Derbyshire if his father was a commercial traveller. I think the next step might be to see if we can find his parents on the 1901 census hopefully still in Derbyshire.

i do also like the fact that there does not seem to be a death for a William L Gordon that ties in with the GRO in England (unless I have missed it)

Still think I might visit Matlock soon to see if there is info at the church in Starkholmes.

John

Hi John,
Jane Gray Gordon (Jeanie G on the 1881 Census) was baptised in 1864 in Old Machar, Aberdeen, father John Malcolm Gordon, mother Jessie Innes.
In 1891 Jane was a general servant for James J Gray in Keith, Banffshire. The Scots liked giving friends' and relations' surnames as their children's middle names. Possibly James J Gray was Jane's godfather, or a family friend?
Cheers, Ted

Thanks for that Ted, The question is then if someone scottish said "Malcolm" in Derbyshire, could that sound like Moson? Do you we we are on the right track for our elusive William (who married 1896)?

Ted, when you were so kindly helping me on the above did you find the parents of William L Gordon on the 1891 census? was wondering if you think they would be in Scotland of could they have been in Derbyshire?

i contacted the church where William lived in 1925 to see if they had any records on him in case that gave us any clues but they have nothing which would help me so looks like an email to Derbyshire records office.

My friend thinks what you have found looks very promising but before I put it on the tree I need to get more info to prove what you have kindly suggested is correct.

John