Thank you for all your contributions, it's been very eye opening.
It all ties in with my scant notes from years ago when I had an Ancestry contribution.
Perhaps I'll never know why there are so many years between the births of Rosa and Ada and their parents' marriage, maybe John Drabble was "otherwise indisposed".

My mum who's now 97, remembers her grandmama Ada with great affection, Ada was a very quietly spoken generous lady who loved children. When my mum and her siblings used to visit her grandparents Ada and Frederick Norton they had to sit in order of their ages and produce their Sunday School attendance cards to show that they'd been to church, ironical when you think of Ada's parents' reluctance to marry!
Ada Drabble Drury married well, her husband Frederick Arthur Norton being an employer of several men in his fork grinding business, he also had shares in Abbeydale Theatre/Cinema and owned more than one house.

Thank you all once again, I'm deeply indebted to you.

Regards,
Marlene C.

Hi Marleen,

Information from Family Search.

Marriage.

Christ Church Pitsmoor Yks.
26 Oct 1882

Selina Drury aged 35 (1847) single father George a Labourer

John Drabble aged 49 (1833) bachelor General Dealer father John cutler.

1881 census information.Pond St
Railway Station Hotel (Sheffield Park Eccle)

Jane Ann Halton manageress
9 servants which includes.

Mary Jane Drury aged 17 scullery maid born Eastrington E Yks (1864)
Selina Drury aged 19 House maid born Eastrington E Yks (1862)
both girls unmarried.

Dates are the key factor.


Elaine in Ottawa.

Hi Elaine,
Thanks for the 1881 census, it's another eye opener, a lot of servants all from different areas at that pub!
Also, if Selina's birth in Eastrington was in 1851 she's taken years off herself at being 19 on the 1881 census. I wish I'd inherited her youthful appearance to be able to knock off 11 years!

Regards
Marlene C.

Elaine and Marlene,
Please note that Selina and her sister Mary Jane are servants in the Railway Hotel in 1871, not 1881, so their ages are correct for their births in 1851 and 1853.
Dave

Hi Dave,
Thank you for this, thought it was odd but, not unusual for my family he seem to be a little forgetful with the truth!

Does anyone know where the Railway Hotel was in 1871, I've looked on "Picture Sheffield" without success?

Regards,
Marlene C.

Hi Marlene,

Sorry about that I had both census open and just looked at the wrong heading.

The Station Hotel was on Harmer Lane which ran from 135 Pond St to Sheaf St.

Hope that helps.

BUT at least maybe we can zero in on John better now we have an age for him.

Elaine.

The correct John Drabble is present in every census from 1841 to 1881. He can be positively identified by a combination of his age and who he consistently lives with.
1841 Rotherham Road. John is 7 and living with his parents John 35 (table knife cutler), Mary Ann 35, and brother George 15.
1851 Nun St. He is understandably transcribed as JOSHUA Drabble, 17, Table knife striker boarding with William Nutt 30, dealer in Horn. Hannah Nutt 38 and Hannah’s mother Faith Cooper (formerly Gibson nee Grayson) 47, and Hannah’s siblings Eliza Cooper (Gibson) 14 and Joseph Cooper (Gibson) 10.
1861 26 Crown Alley. The head of the house is missing. His wife is Hannah Nutty 38. John Drabble is 27 and unmarried a Broker; also present is Betsey Hannah Parkin, 7, Boarder. There is a baptism for her. She was born illegitimate January 1854 to Eliza Parkin, Spinster of High St Park
1871 21 High St. John Drabble 37, unmar, green grocer with William Nutt 51 broker of Tillage dealer, Hannah Nutt 48, John H Bonsall 18 Head, Lab, Betsy H Bonsall 16 wife, William Bonsall 1, son
Note that Betsey Hannah Parkin, not yet 16 and very pregnant, married John Henry Bonsall in 1869.
1881 23 Bard St. William Nutt, 60, Head Cutler, Hannah Nutt wife 58, John DRABLE, 47, Huckster Boarder, Mary A Lye, 18 Niece, Servant.
William Knutt died in q3 1881 and Hannah Knutt in q1 1882. They were a childless couple.
Betsy Hannah and husband John Henry Bonsall had a total of 15 children (incl 2 sets of twins) between 1870 and 1895. Their birth registrations are on GRO index (Bonsall or Bonsell). The first 2 are mmn PARKIN, the third and fourth are mmn KNUTT, and the remainder are all mmn WADSWORTH.
Clearly Betsey Hannah was adopted by the childless (K)Nutts and they presumably knew her mother Eliza Parkin and had heard her real father was called Wadsworth. I guess the Nutts passed this info on to Betsey Hannah. I believe Eliza Parkin died in 1860
The City Road grave containing John Drabble clearly belonged to Betsey Hannah (d 1898) and John Henry Bonsall (d 1921). It was first opened in 1884 to bury 2 of their infant children, then John Drabble in 1885, another of their infants in 1887, then grandsons Edward Bonsall (1904), son of William and his wife Rosa nee Drury and Edward Wagstaff (1907), son of Hannah Bonsall and her husband Charles.
The births of Rosa and Ada Drabble Drury in 1870 and 1871 were clearly registered by Selina Drury and at the time John Drabble did not allow her to give them his surname. He could not stop her from inserting Drabble as a second forename.
I suspect he simply could not afford to bring up 2 children and by denying them they would be brought up by Selina’s parents. Because Selina was under 21 the authorities would not get involved.
When he did eventually marry her in 1882 it may be significant that the 2 girls were now of an age where they would go out to work, so would no longer be a financial burden. Perhaps also significant could be the fact that his long term housemates the Nutts had just died, leaving him suddenly alone. As already noted, Betsey Hannah was his witness, and she had a convenient grave when he died in 1885.
Selina was a witness at the marriages of both Rosa and Ada and their father was clearly stated to be John Drabble. Both Rosa and Ada married as Drury surname but declared their maiden names as Drabble on the registration of their children (one was Drabble-Drury).
Sorry this is so long. I hope you have enough info to find all the census returns and the relevant birth and death registrations.
Dave

Well Dave T., what can I say other than "thank you" so much.
It's like war and peace, you have been very busy, I hope it hasn't taken up too much of your time especially with being busy at this time of the year.
I need to read this information several times to understand the relationships but, with all this I can see the character of John DRABBLE forming. The terminology of "huckster" says a lot about him!
I have the marriage certificate for Selina DRURY and John DRABBLE but, very little else to go on without having Ancestry at the moment.
I have a couple of family anecdotes, Rosa Drabble DRURY went into service and was told by her employer that the name Rosa was a bit too posh for a servant girl so she had to be known as Mary whilst in service.
According to my grandfather (son of Ada) his aunt Rosa was a bit of a fun lover who thought it was amusing to put Reckitts Blue into the church font water.
I knew from family knowledge that Rosa married into the Bonsall family who were a very big family all employed in the haulage business and they had some links with the pub at Cricket Inn Road (not an area I know) but, your information of John DRABBLE being very involved with the BONSALL family explains the connection.
Thank you, once again Dave, I'm indebted to you.

Regards,
Marlene C.

Marlene, thanks. One minor correction. In 1851 Hannah Nutt was 28 not 38. My typo.
On thinking about the big picture I suspect that John Drabble did not like being a Cutler so he went to work for William Nutt as a dealer/Hawker/Huckster.
Dave

Brilliant Dave.
Another job description Elaine noted was "marine store dealer", in Dickens terms that meant a "junk shop owner".
He sounds a real ducker and diver!
Hope this research hasn't taken up your time, I'm really grateful to you.
Regards,
Marlene C.