Trying to find history of Elizabeth Whittles born about 1807 She married William Bailie in County Tyrone in 28/09/1851 Her father may have been called Joseph born around 07/02/1777 who was buried I believe from St Peter,and St Paul’s Cathedral, Sheffield.Grandfather may have been called John died about 1793

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/
has a record of the 1851 marriage in its civil records.
The event is dated 29 September 1851.
This should take you to the image.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1851/09409/5408579.pdf

The link does not fully display.
After 1851/ add:
09409/5408579.pdf

If elizabrth was born in Sheffield then not found a baptism for her yet.

Dexter, there is nothing in the marriage record which points to a birth date or birth place for Elizabeth.
What evidence do you have that her father was from Sheffield?
There is no doubt that she was married in 1851. If she was born in 1807 then she must have been 44 when she married. This would imply that the couple probably had no offspring. Is that true?
Dave

Dave, not sen the image but I am wondering if this was probably a second marriage given the age.

John, Just look at the image and You will know the answer to your question . It is also available on FMP

"This would imply that the couple probably had no offspring"
There are family trees at Ancestry that claim at least 2 children of the couple, but not well documented.

According to my reading of those trees they had one child, William Baillie. born in Co Tyrone in either 1847 (4 yrs before the marriage) or "about 1852". In both cases there is no evidence provided.
Whoever Elizabeth Whittles was I can find no evidence of a birthplace or an age at marriage (other than "of full age"). The only positive statements about her are that she was a spinster and that her father is said to be Joseph Whittles, a labourer. Of course that may be factually correct, but if she was actually born illegitimate then that could be an invention.
Unless Dexter can provide more factual information I think we would be wasting our time on this one`
Dave

I think you are right on this Dave if and its a big if there is a connection I think it mught be a generation back yes her father is called Joseph and the Joseph born in 1777 is in fact her grandfather. They must have had very hard times as that was around the end of the potato famine.

Hi all
Hit wall with William Bailie and Elizabeth Whittles. Checked all over Ireland but no information. Whittles is not a well known name over here.
Consulted Family Search using dates only and found a Joseph/ John Sheffield. From the time of Elizabeth 1st until 1916 there Have have been British army stationed all over Ireland. Thought the father may have been in the army. Sorry for all trouble . Will stick to Ireland
Regards All

Dexter,
According to johngrenham.com there were 8 Whittle families in Clonfeacle parish, Co. Tyrone in 1859.
Dave

This is corect.
Elizabeth Whittles married William Bailie in a townland called Clonfeacle in County Tyrone on 28th Sept 1851. Local Parish Church.
Many thanks for trying. Must try this site.

Hi Dexter et al,
Definitely a complicated family. The following research could be right or wrong..??
Elizabeth Whittles I believe started out as :
ELIZABETH HEMSWORTH Born circa 1807++ Sheffield??
Parents: Frances & John Hemsworth(button manr.)
I believe Elizabeth married three times:
Hemsworth/Taylor (have not traced this marriage yet) but there is a connection on the 1851 census.

Hemsworth/Taylor/Whittles. Married Thomas Whittles in 1845 SPC. Thomas died 1847 age 40.

Hemsworth/Taylor/Whittles to William Bail(l)ie. in Sept/1851 in Ireland..??
What I find elusive is, the census record I found for an Elizabeth Whittles (widow) age about 44, together with her 80 year old mother, Frances Hemsworth..2 Whittles children (1 mmn Twigg, possibly born to the second wife of Thomas) plus a 68 year old George TAYLOR (there is that Taylor connection). Then 6 months after the 1851 census, we find (as per Dexter info) Elizabeth marrying again to William Bail(l)ie on Sept 28/1851 in County Tyrone. Did the couple remain in Ireland..?? I have found a death for a William Baillie on the 3/Jan/1870 age 65(at Dungannon).
The only death I have found for an Elizabeth Baillie is in 1882 age 75 (B:1807, a good fit) at Lancaster, Lancs.
My two cents worth.
Cheers Wendy in Guelph:sleuth_or_spy:

Wendy, the Elizabeth Whittles who married William Bailie in Sept 1851 in Clonfeacle, Co. Tyrone was a SPINSTER and she declared her father was Joseph Whittles, a labourer.
Coincidentally there is a marriage of a Jane Whittles in Co. Armagh in August 1852. She was 20 and her father was John Whittles, labourer. . This was only 10 km from Clonfeacle.
So clearly there were at least 2 different Whittles families in the area at the time.
Dave

Wendy and all others I who have tried to provide me relevant information relating to Whittles/Bailie family ancestors. A big thank you.
The information I have gathered by means of births,deaths marriage and deaths from local Registration offices and have copies are as follows,
William James Bailie. 1923/1996 my father married Dorothy Kathleen Fletcher 1944
William James Bailie 1894/1987Grandfather married Margaret Jane McGivern
William James Bailie (Baillie) 1871/1950 Great Grandfather married Mary McCutcheon
William Bailie(Baillie)1839/1910 GreatGreat Grandfather. married 1869 Sarah Ann Kerr
William Bailie(Baillie,Baillie,Bailey)1805/1870 name spelt by three people.
Married to Elizabeth Whittles 1805/before 1881, Clonfeacle and married from here 1851.
Witness to marriage Joseph Whittles father (now hit the wall)
Many thank to all

Other than the 1851 marriage, in what countries/counties did these events occur?

Terry. As per information dated 26th.
Over the years have tried North and South of Ireland. Scotland and Sheffield
Local county historical for County Tyrone, Down Armagh . Family Search ,Irish Genalogy,Wiki. geneanet.org, rootsireland.ie
Will keep going as this keeps me occupied.
Many thanks to all

Dexter,
A couple marriages for you to compare, BOTH IN CLONFEACLE

Sept 1851 Elizabeth Whittles . Her home Blackwatertown. Her father Joseph, a labourer.
Aug. 1859 Sarah Whittle a weaver. Her home Blackwatertown. Her father Joseph, a labourer.

Both were "of full age". They must have been sisters

Following up on SARAH (married to Daniel Lavery) there are at least 3 children registered in the next few years, all in or around Clonfeacle:
William (wrongly transcribed as "unknown") 1864
Sarah 1867
Mary 1871
In all cases their father is Daniel Lavery PIG DEALER and mother is Sarah formerly Whittle.
Sarah Lavery age 87 widow of a FORMER PIG DEALER died in BLACKWATERTOWN in 1919. The death was registered by her daughter Ellen (presumably born before 1864 when records began).

So Daniel Lavery married Sarah Whittle who was born in 1833

What EVIDENCE do you have that Elizabeth Whittles was born 1805??? I think she was born in the late 1820s or early 1830s, older sister of Sarah.
Dave

Dave, which website are you using? we need to see if we can find a Joseph Whittle (sic) marriage say 1820.

what else get me is round about that time there was the potato famine make you wonder why they did not come over to England presume too expensive for them

"marriage say 1820"

1820 predates civil registration in Ireland. So, your search would be of church records. The 1851 marriage was conducted by Warren Cecil Maunsell.

This
https://archive.org/stream/armaghclergypari00lesl/armaghclergypari00lesl_djvu.txt
at page 186 indicates Maunsell was with the Church Of Ireland, so searching RC records is probably not profitable.

Terry thanks for the info re civil registration in Ireland.