Hi All
I'm having a confusing time as my 2nd great grandfather Joseph Bailey married a Harriet Pointon in 185. According to the marriage certificate Harriet' maiden name was Pointon and her father was Jooseph Pointon. The later census safter marriage states that she was born in Watch Hill, then Whittington, and Cheterfield in Derbyshire. I cannot fiind a baptism or birth to a John Pointon or find her on the census pre 1851.

The births of the children are odd as some are in the maiden name of Pointon and others as Furniss so I suspected tha she may have been illegitimate. There is a birth for a Harriet Furniss to a Maru Furniss in 1837 in Brampton, Derbyshire which is most probably her.

There is also a marriage for a John Pointon and a Mary Furniss in 1840 in Hope, Derbyshire (registered as Chapel En le Frith).

There is a John Pointon in Hope Derbyshire in 1851 with wife Mary and some children but Icannot find Harriet. There is a Harriet Pointon in Hope on the 1841 census as a 4 year old child but no parents or siblings are with her which is odd and the other names are Littlewood.

Anyone got any thoughts or can help me find Harriet on the 1841 and 1851 census and that of her family?

Mamny thanks

Not had any look on the census returns yet but the marriage you refer too is interesting

31st Dec 1840 at Hope John POYNTON (note the spelling) of Thornhill to a Mary Furness or Watcliff, Brampton.

John was a dealer and so was his father who was called Ellis, The father of Mary was called John and he was a labourer.

This info is on a cd I have.

referring to the 1841 census you found out of curiosity in 1803 an Ellis POYNTON of Sheffield married an Alice Littlewood so could that lead to how the Harriet you found on the 1841 censu be tied in.

ie is this Ellis the father of John?

Hi John

That's very interesting as I didn't know who the Littlewood's were. I've ordered John and Mary's marriage certificate but can only find the birth of only one of their children, although I've found the baptisms. Looks like most of them were born in Hope. One of their children is called Ellias John so John has probably named him after his father.

Many thanks for the info, wish I could just find the kids births now, I've tried every spelling of Pointon/Poynton etc both on all genealogical websites (family search, ancestry, find my past) and through the GRO website I've tried all the filters.

when you say the kids names do you mean the children of Joseph Bailey and harriet?

Hi

There are births for

Joseph Poynton - mmn Furniss 1851 - chapel en le Frith
John Poynton - mmn Furniss 1855 - Chapel en le Frith
Martha Poynton- mmn Furniss 1857 - chapel en le Frith

???

Denise

So who are the kids of joseph and harriet bailey

The children's baptisms are:
Sarah 1858
John 1860
Anne 1863
Henry 1865
William 1868
Frederick 1871
Joseph 1872
Joseph 1873
Arthur 1881

Some births are registered in the maiden name Furness the others in Pointon, but I could only find the ones mentioned below born in Chapel en le Frith it may be due to the spelling of the surname Pointon/Poynton, but I cannot find the others in the registered births

Thank you for this Denise - these were the only ones I was able to find also

Hi Lesley

I think its becoming a bit messy regarding registered Births and Baptisms and what you've already found, of each type. And whether we're looking for the registered births of John and Marys children or Harriet and Josephs children (or both)

It would be helpful if you could clarify and give us 1 single list of all of the known children for whichever parents, noting those which are just Baptisms (so no birth found) and those which are just Births found (including mmn) but no baptism.

That way we have a bit of a clearer direction to search and we're not duplicating what's already been found.

Thanks
Denise

These are the GRO birth registrations for the 8 Bailey children for whom you also have Baptisms.
BAILEY, SARAH POINTON
GRO Reference: 1857 D Quarter in SHEFFIELD Volume 09C Page 362

BAILEY, JOHN POINTON
GRO Reference: 1860 J Quarter in SHEFFIELD Volume 09C Page 406

BAILEY, ANNIE FURNACE
GRO Reference: 1863 J Quarter in SHEFFIELD Volume 09C Page 440

BAILEY, HENRY POINTON
GRO Reference: 1865 M Quarter in SHEFFIELD Volume 09C Page 466

BAILEY, WILLIAM FURNISS
GRO Reference: 1868 S Quarter in SHEFFIELD Volume 09C Page 470
BAILEY, FREDERICK FURNISS
GRO Reference: 1870 D Quarter in SHEFFIELD Volume 09C Page 507

BAILEY, JOSEPH FURNISS
GRO Reference: 1872 D Quarter in SHEFFIELD Volume 09C Page 547

BAILEY, ARTHUR POINTON
GRO Reference: 1875 D Quarter in SHEFFIELD Volume 09C Page 571

Do you have any of these birth records? It would be interesting to see exactly who registered each of the births. They are available as digital images so only £3 each
Dave

Well found Dave as you said would be interesting to see who registered them. Had it got to be a parent or could it be anyone?

Hi Dave

Frederick 1870 Registered by Joseph father - mother Pointon
Arthur 1875 Registered by mother Harriet- mother Pointon
Joseph 1872 - Registered by Joseph father - mother Furniss
Annie 1863 - Registered by mother Harriet- mother Furniss/Furnace
Sarah 1857 - Registered by mother Harriet- mother Pointon
John 1860 - Registered by mother Harriet- mother Pointon
Henry 1865 - Registered by mother Harriet- mother Pointon
William 1868 - Registered by Joseph father - mother Furniss

It seems to be Harriet rather than Joseph that is referring to her maiden name as Pointon

Hi

I can only find only what Denise found below - parents are John Poynton and Mary Furniss living in Hope, Derbyshire - its the civil births of the other Poynton children I cannot find

Here is another

POINTON, - FURNISS
GRO Reference: 1847 J Quarter in CHAPEL EN LE FRITH Volume 19 Page 474

This must be Alice. She was age 3 in 1851
Dave

Thank you

Hi

Looking to see if I can find the civil birth for Ann Bailey baptised 1839 in Ecclesfield, Sheffielwould like to know actual date of birth

Hi Lesley,

I presume this is the family you are researching.
Taken from Ecclesfield Baptisms.

10 Mar 1839 BAILEY Ann Benjamin Hannah Labourer Nether Houses

Some people believed that a baptisms covered the registration when Civil Registration first started. Ecclesfield came under Vol 22 at that stage and as you said its not listed. I am sure I remember something odd about those first few years at Ecclesfield after registration started but can't bring it to mind. There is a Hannah listed for 1841 Ecclesfield 22.

Think that's about as far as I can go.

Elaine.

Hi Ann

Thanks for your reply. Yes it's an Ecclesfield baptism. She is baptised in 1839- so she may have possibly been born post 1837 and have a civil birth registration, I am not sure. There are a couple of births for an Ann Bailey in Ecclesall Bierlow and one in Sheffield, others in Rotherham, the mother's maiden name was Froggat it seems or I presume as there was a marriage for a Benjamin Bailey and a Hannah Froggat in Rotherham in 1820.

It may be that Ann was actually born pre-1837 and therefore pre civil registration. I have my CD's of Sheffield births upstairs somewhere so I'll have to dig them out. I did my Bailey line about 15 years ago (my great grandmother was Hilda Bailey born in Darnall to Wiiliam Bailey) but never actually put them into a tree so it's all hazy now and am returning to it and going back through it.

I need to find the original birth somewhere if I can, but probably have it somewhere. Will keep you updated wiith what I find. I'll check out the Hannah birth. Thnks again Elaine.

Hi Elaine

Just an update I've found Ann's birth:

ANN BUYLEY 1839 Mar WORTLEY UNION 22 654 Mother's maiden name Froggat spelt Freggat!

They certainly made a mess of that entry.

I believe that Ecclesfield Reg district was called that (I thought for about three years) and then were placed
it in the Wortley Registration district.

I had also checked her out on three census. Seems they lived in Whiteley for them and Yes I agree with Hannah Froggatt as being her mother. Ann seems to be the last of Benjamin & Hannah's children.As per the census, so the one born in 1841 may not be theirs. I didn't check the GRO.

So one way or another you have the answer to the question you asked. I have Bailey's from Ecclesfield in my tree but can't see a LINK.

Elaine.

Hi Elaine
Have you done a DNA test? I'm on Ancestry. You never know we may be related!