Hi Mary Elizabeth Ann Smith was my great grandmother she married Walter Rhodes in 1889 in Sheffield. Her father was Samuel Smith a labourer but deceased. Mary lived at 34 Tipton Street at the time of the marriage.
I have tried all sorts of avenues to find her parents but come up with nothing really concrete. Could anyone advise me please. This has been a long search approx 25 years.

could be barking up the wrong tree here so if so I apologise in advancer

in 1881 a Mary Elizabeth Smith was living with her widowed mother also Mary who in 1881 was aged 50 and she was an annuitant. There was also an older brother.

On this site there is a burial for a samuel Smith in 1871 aged 34 he was a labourer.

There is no record on the GRO for Sheffield of a Mary Elizabeth Ann Smith born 1866 but she could have added ann at the tiome of marriage or perhaps her birth was not registered.

As I said I might be barking up the wrong tree but its just a quick observation.

John

Morning Susan,

I went to the 1871 census and just wanted to check with you if I have the right family.

Samuel, Mary, children Emma. Joseph Mary & Hannah*.

SMITH, Hannah (of 99 Carlisle St East, born ~).
Baptised June 18, 1873, by J B Draper at All Saints, Brightside.
Parents name(s) are Mary & Samuel (Striker).
Note: Aged 3 years

Elaine.

Thankyou for your reply, do you know the name of the older brother on the census. On the marriage certificate one of the witnesses is an Albert Smith which I think could be her brother.
Mary was born 1866 not sure about Albert. What site did you use for 1881 census?

I used find my past a subscription site

Thankyou for your reply.I thought it was that or Ancestry

Hi Susan,

I did try the two witnesses Albert Smith & Florence Rhodes. Florence was easy to follow not so Albert. We both had the same idea he could be an older brother as her father was dead.Buttttt I couldn't spot him so thats why I switched to the 1871 census.

You say you have been looking for 25years have you looked at ALL the census????

Tipton St where she was living in 1889 was in Brightside so I was looking for a Samuel Smith in the Brightside area.

Thats why I was asking about the family I listed above.

Elaine.

Could this be Mary Elizabeth.....

SMITH, Mary (of 99 Carlisle St East, born ~).
Baptised June 18, 1873, by J B Draper at All Saints, Brightside.
Parents name(s) are Mary & Samuel (Striker).
Note: Aged 7 years

Elaine.

I have seen this entry before but according to the marriage certificate Samuel was a labourer before his death.
I think Florence Rhodes was Walter's sister born in 1868 she married Arthur Brookfield also on the certificate.
I found an entry for Albert Smith in 1901 census aged 30 living with Mary Smith aged 72 at 56 Tipton Street. Problems of having Smith as a surname. Regards Susan Whitaker

Hi Susan,

A Striker would be classed as a Labourer......
I have found the ones I mentioned on the 1851 & 1861 census.

Albert was living next door to his older brother Samuel in 1861.
Both on Carlisle St East. (Brightside)

Samuel a Striker and Albert a Basket Maker.


Elaine.

Hi Elaine, I've seen these entries and discounted them because of the the difference in the occupation so maybe I should use these as part of Mary's line. Thankyou for that. Regards Susan

Hi John, I have the 1881 census with Mary and her mother. I also found On GRO a Mary E A Smith 1866 registered at Wortley but nothing else. So maybe she wasn't
Registered. Thankyou for your help. Regards Susan

Wortley is sheffield. So that is definitely a good match in the early days there was dheffield Wortley and Ecclesall bierlow the joined up to form sheffield but can remember when

Morning,

To give you a better idea of what areas the "Wortley" Registration District covered. It is not the Wortley in Leeds.

https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/wortley.html

Elaine.

Just another observation.

Samuel Smith was born in Newton Heath Lancs and I have seen that Mary has her birth place as either Everton(1871 census) or Preston.(1841 census)

Have fun searching.

Elaine.

The 1939 Register has a Walter Rhodes and Mary E Rhodes at 95 Carlisle Road, Sheffield. If this is your target couple, the record says their birthdays are May 10 1865 and Oct 28 1867. Birthdays are sometime recorded wrongly of course, but typically they are right.

If the birth of Mary E nee Smith was registered you would expect it to be in the 4th quarter of 1867. If I have the right couple, the 1891 & 1901 census’ say she was born Sheffield. 1911 is more precise “Ecclesfield Parish”.

According to FreeBMD Ecclesfield would have been included in the Wortley registration district.

A Smith birth registered December quarter 1867 at Wortley with anything like one of your target’s names is Eliza. The mother’s maiden name is not recorded.

These places were "correct" at different times.

Part of Ecclesfield parish was transferred into Sheffield 31 Oct 1901 (Sheffield Corporation Act 1900). I know this included Wincobank and other nearby areas. There are notes on some of the 1901 census pages.

It appears the same area was transferred on 1 Oct 1902 from Wortley reg. district to Sheffield reg. distrct - see note (f) in the UKBMD table 2.

HI Terry, Thankyou for your reply, I have the 1939 Register with Walter and Mary's birth dates. I have been on GRO and there doesn't appear to be an entry for Mary around the anywhere in Ecclesfield or Wortley area so maybe her parents didn't register her. Thankyou anyway. Regards Susan

Hi John, I have the 1881 census where Mary E is living at Jessop Buildings with her brother Joseph E a joiner and her mother Mary E.I suppose that could be my Mary E there doesn't seem to be anymore. Thankyou. Regards Susan

Quote "The 1939 Register has a Walter Rhodes and Mary E Rhodes at 95 Carlisle Road, Sheffield. If this is your target couple, the record says their birthdays are May 10 1865 and Oct 28 1867. Birthdays are sometime recorded wrongly of course, but typically they are right."

Typically birth DAYS are right but birth YEARS can be be wrong. Nobody forgets the birth day and month of themselves or their close relatives, but their exact AGE can often be less certain.
I think we can be pretty sure that your Mary Elizabeth Smith was born on 28 Oct, but was it in 1867?
Consistently through the censuses her age was given as being born 1866.
In the 1921 census she is down as Elizabeth Ann Rhodes age 55, ie born 1866.

GRO index has 2 birth records for Mary Elizabeth Smith born WORTLEY in Q4 1866. They are available as digital image at a cost of only £3 each.
May I suggest you buy one of them (the result is almost instantaneous)and if the birth date was not 28 Oct then you buy the second.
For a max cost of £6 (and maybe only £3) you may identify your ancestor birth record.
Dave

Good reply's from both Terry & Dave.

Elaine.

I agree with Dave about birth day being right and birth year being wrong. My wife's aunt, and family, thought she was born 1909, but it was actually 1908. When we found out, she didn't have to celebrate her 90th birthday on her 91st!