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Good evening folks, referring to the Baptisms on this site
Joshua Colk of 37 Union Lane, Baptised 6 July 1880 at St Simons, Sheffield.
Kate Ellen Colk also of 37 Union lane, Baptised same day, parents are Eliza and James
Parents names alongside Joshua is just Ann Eliza, no male name given.
I presume Joshua was born illegitimate, am I correct ?
HOWEVER ! It doesn't appear that Eliza and James had a daughter called Ann Eliza unless I am not looking at records closely enough.
My Mother like a lot of her generation was loathe to talk of dark family secrets.
Incest was the subject, I may have stumbled by chance on part of the story !
Hi again re Colk
Joshua I omitted to say had a middle name READ
Might be nothing, could be something !
Thinking caps on folks, the outcome could be very interesting
My Mom bless her, had many a dark secret. Very frustrating when trying to trace family history !
Me again, got this between my teeth
Incest in 1880,obviously a disgrace on a family !
Was it then punishable by Law ?
Would such an occurrence appear in a newspaper ?
Enough, i off to bed.
Roger
Hi Roger,
Nothing sinister about Joshua.
On the 1881 census (you need access) he is listed as the grandson (aged 2) of James & Eliza Colk both born in Norfolk. James is a railway labourer. Likewise still with his grandparent in 1891 aged 12.
You need to research the family in Norfolk and see if they have other children born there.
Elaine in Ottawa.
Good morning Elaine and thanks !
Roger
Good morning folks
I have found differences in the spelling of Joshua's middle name.
On the Indexers burials, 24 Feb 1956, the spelling is Read.
On Free BMD it is Reed
Would SKS have a look at the transcripts for the 1881 Census for Joshua's grand parents, James and Eliza to see how the name is spelt
Many thanks
Joshua REED Colk (note the spelling of the middle name) born 1879 no mother's maiden name.
Kate Ellen Colk, you say baptised on the same day but does it give a date of birth because as yet I have found no birth record for her but not gone far back, it just might mean her birth was not registered because it was not compulsary to register births until 1875.
John
Hi John and thanks for your contribution
Slotting pieces of the jigsaw in place, will be a long time before completion
Kate Ellen's d of b I haven't got
Joshua's parents were married in Sheffield in 1876
And here is the birth reg for Kate Ellen
CALK, KATE ELLEN WYMER
GRO Reference: 1871 J Quarter in SHEFFIELD Volume 09C Page 453
She was 9 on 1881 census.
Dave
www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-99G8-Q9T4-8?i=59
has the burial record of Eliza Hannah Colk at the Sheffield General Cemetery.
11454
Died 31 August 1882.
Occupation: daughter of James Colk, labourer. 79 Boden Street.
Good evening Dave and a huge thanks for the information provided !
I now have a headache after taking it all in !!
2 things remain. Can't find the burial location of Ann Eliza, Joshua's mother.
I wonder who Joshua's father was.
I remember both my Mom and my Uncle referring to Josh as they called him, as a fellow with learning difficulties. The Incest relationship I referred to in an earlier post could have caused his condition. The father of Josh I am presuming to be a family member. I will now leave that subject alone !!
Taken from the General Cemetery Index.
Colk, Eliza Hannah (, died on 31 Aug 1882, at the age of 19).
Resided at 79 Boden St and buried on 3 Sep 1882 in ? ground;
Grave Number 11454, Section H4 738 of General Cemetery, Sharrow.
Notes: . Place of Birth: ?. Parent(s): D. of James Colk, labourer.
Joshua is on all the census and seems to be working as a Tramcar Conductor.
Maybe some of your family stories need to be taken with a pinch of salt. He has a whole brood of children.
Elaine.
I do have access to their names but I want you to find them yourself by using the the GRO index.
In 1911 there were five children to Joshua and his wife Edith (mmn Dale).
The first and last one are males. Just fill in surname of Colk and mothers name as Dale. The first child a boy born 1901.
Joshua was as I said a Tramcar Conductor. He was 32 born in 1879.
A little quest for you but thats how I approach such challenges. The other issue unless you have proof should be taken with a grain of salt. Thats all I will say on the subject.
Elaine in Ottawa.
Roger
(H)Anna Eliza was birth registered at the end of March 1863. Her illegitimate son Joshua was born 14th Feb 1879. So Ann Eliza was probably not yet 16. This means she conceived very shortly after her 15th birthday. That is very young
I suggest you buy Joshua's birth cert (digital image, only £2.50). If you are lucky one of Ann Eliza's parents may have may have registered it.
For what it is worth I think you are right to ignore the pinch of salt. I have 3 cases of incest in my tree. It was more common than you may think.
On the subject of Joshua and "learning difficulties": the 1901 census entry has Joshua and his wife and a 3 month old child. With them is a lady named as Hannah Eliza Colk, 68 yrs old and said to be his MOTHER. This is clearly his GRANDMOTHER, Eliza Colk, b 1833. But note that his actual mother, who died when he was just 3 was actually called Hannah Eliza. Is this confusion an example of his difficulties?
Dave
This is probably nothing but here goes. The Hannah Eliza Colk that Elaine found in the General Cemetery buried in 1882 aged 19.
There are lots of people buried in this grave but one that stood out for me is a burial in 1910 aged 55 years of an Albert REED. Is this significant or just a coincidence.
Born 1855 could he have been Joshua's father?
Sorry if nothing but wonder if Dave and Elaine thinks its worth investigating.
John
Hi Elaine
No problem for me in researching, I like the challenge. However I don't do it at any great speed.
You my Dear lady are always first of the start line with information.
I am not complaining !!
My thanks to you again. There are many folks on this Forum who are a treasure to other amateur family historians.
Thanks Roger for your kind comments.
When I set the site up way back we put the Message Forum there to be used especially for those not as confident in their research.That included myself at that time. I had had my knuckles wrapped a few times on a another site (Yorks Gen)?? and vowed our site wouldn't do that.
However saying that I do like folks to become as confident as possible in doing their own research. I know DaveT has ways and means of finding material that I wouldn't necessarily find. Thats the joy of it all. BUT we all love a problem as you know and try our best to help.
Keep going at your own speed but the GRO will help. I checked FreeCen out for you and they are not there on the 1911 census but FMP & Ancestry have them.
Soooooo have fun and I think JohnS comment might bear fruit. Fingers crossed.
Elaine in Ottawa.
Oops need to go to and clean my glasses nevertheless Dave I still think its connected somehow