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Please can some one help.Here goes.On 1911 census George Redfern 1854 widower,living with son Walter Redfern born 1887.and his daughter in law Ada Gabbitas, his grand children was Sarah Redfern 1907,Walter 1909,and Ada 1910.They were all living at 35 Dun Street Sheffield. Walter born 1887 was my grandads uncle who was born 1909,and called Alfred.Walter was uncle to Ellen Redfern my grandads sister born 1911. I can not find my grandad and his sister on any 1911 census,the only thing i have is my grandads birth certificate when born living at 5 Court Matthew Street Sheffield.Ellen my grandads sister when born at 35 Dun Street Sheffield.The same address but not on census.Please can you help thanks Janette
Morning Janette,
Is this your relative.
REDFERN, Walter (of Dun St, born ~).
Baptised November 17, 1886, by C R Killick at St Philips Church, Shalesmoor.
Parents name(s) are Sarah & George (Razor Grinder).
This is in our Baptismal database.
If you enter surname "REDFERN" fathers name GEORGE.
You can check if there others.
Elaine.
Hi thanks for getting back,yes Walters parents was called George Redfern and Sarah nee young
From GRO index Ellen Redfern , mmn Redfern birth registered q4 1911 Sheffield. Therefore she was not yet born at the time of the 1911 census in April 1911.
Her brother Alfred Redfern mmn Redfern was born q2 1909 Sheffield so so depending on exact birth date he would be either 1 or 2 yrs old at the 1911 census.
Dave
It looks like they were living at 24 Ellis St in 1911 and Alfred was wrongly recorded as Albert, Age 1. Parents are Thomas 26 and Mary 25. They have been married 5 yrs and Mary had been married before (Butcher)
There is a female baby in the house, as yet unnamed, who was born on the night of the Census. That presumably was Ellen.
There are other Redfern children and also an 8 yr old Beatrice Ellen Butcher from Mary's previous marriage.
Dave
Thankyou Dave Just wonder if my grandad was not put down on 1911 census with been so young.
I dont think it could have been my grandad Alfred wrote down as Albert.My grandads parents was George Redfern born Massachusetts and Ellen Redfern nee Redfern born Sheffield.Still a puzzle
Hi Janette,
I am getting a little confused here.
The George(1884) who married Ellen was he the son of George (1854.)
If so on the 1901 census ALL the children (6) of George and Sarah were born in Sheffield. George (1884) was a razor grinder.
Walter & Ada Redfern marriage took place at St Bartholomew's.1908.
Using FMP Walter is not showing up on the 1911 census. BUT they are on the 1939 Index in Sheffield.
Have you looked at Family Search for census information?
Elaine.
Janette,
your grandfather Alfred Redfern (b 1909) is on the 1921 census in Sheffield with his parents George (b1882 in USA)) and Ellen and his siblings George, Arthur, Ellen etc.
The family is definitely not to be found on the 1911 census.
Have you considered that at the time of the 1911 census they could have been in USA visiting his father's family? Alfred would be almost 2, George junior about 4 and mother Ellen would be in the early stages of pregnancy with Ellen, who was born at the end of 1911 in Dun St Sheffield.
Dave
Thankyou every one for helping.My grandad Alfred born 1909 his father George born in U.S.A.only lived there with his family for a couple of years,family always said there was a lot of trouble with them out there so they had to come back,dont no if they were forced to come back or they came back volentery family would not talk about it,but there is no one to ask now as they have all past on.It was my grandads grandad George and grand mother Sarah nee young that went to U.S.A they took Emily daughter born 1876 with them they had three children in U.S.A Lena 1880-1880 Sarah 1882-1882 then George born 1884.Then came back to UK and had six more children.So confused Janette
Hi
In 1876 George Redfern (b 1854), Razor Grinder marries Sarah Young
Also in 1876 they have a daughter Emily.
In 1879 they have another daughter Mary Elizabeth, but she dies aged 5 weeks. Both children born in Sheffield.
In 1880 George Redfern travels to Springfield Connecticut with wife Sarah and daughter Emily. His nationality is given as American and his occupation 'Works cutlery shop'.
In 1882/3 George Redfern junr is born in Worcester MA.
Then at some point the family return to the UK in time for Walters birth In 1887 in Sheffield. And they then stay here.
It was common for workers in the cutlery/tool trade to travel from Sheffield to the US, particularly around MA/Connecticut, so presumably this is why George snr and his family went there (?)
Given that George junr was also a Razor Grinder, could this also have been the reason he may have gone to the US between 1909-1911 so not on the 1911 census (haven't been able to find any travel info for them yet though)?
Denise
Hi Denise,not sure my grandad Alfred said he never went to U.S.A.Was just told family got into trouble and not to talk about it,but now i would love to know what they got up to lol Thanks Janette
Hi Jeanette,
Many years ago I read an article on immigrants from the UK that became a strain on the USA public purse for what ever reason. They were given an option of having there return paid for by the US government which many did.
There are many George Redfern/Redfearn in Sheffield.
The 1901 census if you have it is quite clear.Have a look at it.
Elaine.
George, Sarah and Emily are on the 1880 US Census in Fairfield, Bridgeport Conn. BUT George is said to be born in ENGLAND, as were both his parents.
Dave
Hi Janette et al,
To further back up the Massachusetts connection which Denise referred to. On Family Search website there is a record for a birth as follows:
Redfern..Male..Birth 2nd August, 1883 Worcester, Massachusetts. Parents: George Redfern(Grinder) and Sarah Young. I think we can possibly assume this is George's birthday in 1883.
HAPPY HUNTING:sleuth_or_spy:
Morning every one thankyou for your help.On 1891 census George Redfern was down as been born in U.S.A but on 1901 says Sheffield,wonder if his parents put Sheffield so it looked like they were all from Sheffield for some reason.thanks Janette
Hi Janette,
Quite often it was the census taker taking liberties when re filling in the official form he had to fill in.
Elaine.
PS checked the GRO Index.
Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
REDFERN, GEORGE -
GRO Reference: 1883 M Quarter in SHEFFIELD Volume 09C Page 459
No mothers maiden name showing.
I am like a dog with a bone..... LOL.
I can`t find a marriage for a Redfern-Young. BUT I noticed that some on the children were registered under YOUNGE back in Sheffield.
Could that be the mystery George & Sarah were not married.
They are in our burial index by the way. City Road Cemetery.
Sooooo íf George was born in the USA in 1883 they were back in Sheffield for Alfreds birth in Dec qtr 1885.
Another observation..... on the 1901 census there is a child called Emily aged 4mths. No Emily registered at the GRO but an Amelia MMN Young.
Elaine.
Hi Yes George was married in 1876 to Sarah young on wedding certificate her father was Alfred Young,and George father was also George but both Georges surnames was wrote down as been Redford in error . They were living at Pond Hill Sheffield before they both married.George was 21 and Sarah was 18. When they got back from America,George the son married Ellen Redfern nee Redfern in 1907,these two were my grandad Alfred born 1909 parents my grandads other brother was also called George Redfern born 1907 and married to Doris M Sampson but like my grandad can not find them on 1911 census i can understand that sister Ellen 1911 might have been born after census was done but my grandad and his brother is a mystery thanks Janette
when Alfred was born in 1909, where were they living please and was the address where Alfred was born different to the address of the informant
Hi John,just looked at my grandads birth certificate says Alfred Redfern born 15-5-1909 at 5 court Matthew Street Sheffield.Father George Redfern mother Ellen Redfern nee Redfern.Informant Ellen Redfern mother address 5 Court Matthew Street Sheffield thanks Janette
REDFERN, Alfred (of 5/5 Matthew St, born ~).
Baptised June 2, 1909, by S R N Rees at St Jude, Moorfields.
Parents name(s) are Ellen & George (Bolt heater).
REDFERN, George (of 39 Matthew St, born ~).
Baptised August 26, 1907, by S R N Rees at St Jude, Moorfields.
Parents name(s) are Ellen & George (Labourer).
For what it is worth, both those Matthew Street addresses have records on the 1911 census and the occupants are not Redferns
Dave
Alfred born 1909 was living at 6/10 Hoyle Street Sheffield on 1921 census,Do you know who was living at Matthew Street address on 1911 census please thanks Janette
At 5ct 5h the head was Alvina Naylor age 47 born Sheff and at 39 Matthew St the head was Mary A McHale age 63 born Pontefract.
Dave
Dave, well found on that regarding addresses as my thought was that they were missing hence why we could not find the family.
I wonder if George ran his own business and if so would the info be in a Kellys?
Going back to the 1921 census, who did George work for?
Hi John,George was a Boiler Firer at Forge and Rolling Mills Cap. L.T.D at Milsands Sheffield Thanks Janette
An interesting item!!
"By far the biggest cause of people missing from the 1911 census was civil disobedience. As part of the protest against the government’s continued refusal to grant women the vote, the suffragettes organised a mass boycott of the census."
Dave
Seems my grandad was a mystery in 1911 thanks Janette
That is interesting Dave, I wonder if any of them got fined for not completing the census as surely even in those days it was a legal requirement.
John
No woman was fined. Google it
Dave
Hi every one just like to say thank you for all your help,i will just have to except the fact my grandad was not on 1911 census due to his mum and dad not filling in the forms for some reason.thanks again Janette