And more coincidences:
Margaretta Vicary b 1850 died in Isle of Man 1940. FMP HAS HER baptised Calcutta 1850 and in 1921 she is in Isle of Man said to born Wexford
Julia Ann Vicary b 1853 died 1927 on Isle of Man. Cannot find her in 1921
Nathaniel Quartus Vicary in 1921 is a commercial traveller born 1855 Wexford.
Dave

Dave - Julia Anne Vicary died 17/03/1940 Isle of Man. Probate record says linked person was Thomas Harold Mercer.

Heths

Sorry, my mistake. Mixed up Julia Ann and Margaretta. Margaretta buried Arbory, Isle of Man in 1926

Dave

As the focus is Florence Bertha, I omitted to say that in the 4 June 1895 Vicary-Mercer marriage, one of the witnesses was N Q Vicary. The Q is like a 2.

There is a curious entry in the margin. I can't make out all the words it looks like the bride's age was "corrected by me" to 22. That would make her birth about 1873 in this record too.

It took a while with fractured OCR:
The Standard (London, England)
Wednesday, June 5, 1895
MERCER -VICARY.. – June 4, at St. Marylebone church, London, by the Rev.. E W Rahy, Harold William, only son of the late Captain Thomas Mercer, of Liverpool, to Florence Bertha, youngest daughter of the late Major Vicary, of Exeter.

So, Florence’s father is deceased and she has sisters. If the father was deceased, the witness N Q Vicary is likely to be a relation, possibly a brother.

Thank you one and all. I am going to have to go back to my friend because all your research has thrown up lots of queries to check. A lot of the info you found doesn't match family folklore. Will let you all know, thanks again for some very helpful research.

https://www.imuseum.im
Select newspapers (top of the page)

Isle of Man Examiner Friday August 12 1943
Arbory
Mr. Nathaniel Quarters Vicary, of Colby Beg, Colby, passed away on Saturday at the advanced age of 88 years. Second son of the late Colonel N. Vicary, deceased, came from Co, Wexford, Eire. He had resided at Colby for about twenty years. Prior to which he spent some years in Ballaugh.

10 August issue has a death notice. Name here is Nathaniel Quartas, second son of Lieut. Colonel Vicary, of Wexford …

Mona’s Herald Tuesday March 19 1940
DEATHS
VICARY – On March 17th, Julia Anne, second daughter of the late Lieut Colonel N. Vicary, of Colby Bay, Colby, aged 86.
There are 1940 probate notices for Julia Ann Vicary, spinster of Colby Beg.

Mona's Herald, Wednesday, May 15, 1929
DEATHS
MERCER – On May 10th, at Douglas, Florence Bertha Mercer, of 16, Airedale Road, Ealing, London, W.5., the dearly loved mother of Thomas Harold Mercer. – Interred n Arbory Churchyard, on May 13th.

Son's birth at GRO:
MERCER, THOMAS HAROLD VICARY
GRO Reference: 1896 J Quarter in TOXTETH PARK Volume 08B Page 219

The pension records on FMP found by Heather show that JANE was the name of the wife of Major Nathanial Vicary (died 1863 Dublin), and mother of the 5 children Heather listed (born 1850 to 1858). The annual, very generous, allowances for each of the 5 children are fascinating and show that each of the 3 boys (Charles Napier, Nathanial Q and Benjamin) reached the age 19, when they were "paid off) with a lump sum of 105 pounds each. The 2 girls, Margaretta and Julia Ann, were to receive their allowances until they married, when each would receive a one off £150. No wonder they remained single!

On Jan 23 1890 in Havelock Place Warrenpoint, Newry, Co. Down there is the death of JANE VICARY, Age 53, OFFICER's WIDOW. The registration seems to have been done by a man living at an address just around the corner. This presumably makes the age at death unreliable (she would have been only 15 when her first child, Margaretta, was born).

On the 1891 census at Avondale College, 80 Palmerston Road, Edmonton, Enfield there is a FLORENCE B VICAREY, 18, born Dublin. Clearly this is a girls' boarding school with 26 boarders ranging from age 10 to 19.

Dave

Thank you for the further post. Its the Jane Vicary that's confusing, yes she would have been 15 which seems unlikely. Another problem is no marriage details. Margaretta was born in India so assume they married there. Family think she may have Indian heritage.
The other problem with Florence Bertha puts Nathaniel as her father but which one there are a few. It's very interesting and confusing.

There is one scenario which would fit well with the facts.
MAJOR Nathanial died in Dublin in 1863 and his wife and 5 children were basically set up financially for life
JANE, his widow, got pregnant in Dublin in 1872/3 and gave birth to illegitimate Florence Bertha. Imagine the implications of that in Dublin in 1873. Therefore she did not register the birth and brought the child up as sister to her 5 legitimate children
In 1873 her other children were Margaretta 23, Charles Napier 21, Julia Anne 20, Nathaniel Q 18 and Benjamin 15, so wherever they were they were presumably aware of and party to the deception. PERHAPS Margaretta or JULIA Ann brought her up. Both were financially independent and both died as spinsters.
It looks like Benjamin, a medical student, died in 1885 in Dublin age 25
When Jane died in 1890, Florence was 17 and probably already in London at the finishing school
When Florence married in London 1895 her (half) brother Nathanial Q was witness and was presumably party to the statement that her father was his father, and the newspaper statement that she was 3rd daughter of Nathanial who died in 1863.
It was a big family secret which they all took to their graves.
Dave

That's exactly what I thought Dave. Just wish there someone left to ask!

Another scenario is that either Margaretta or Julia could have been the mother...?

Some more snippets of info:
Slaters Royal National Commercial Directory of Ireland for 1870 lists a Mrs. Jane Vicary at Fair St, Drogheda. This is in the section "Nobility, Gentry & Clergy."

Benjamin died 3 Feb 1885 at City of Dublin Hospital. He was a merchants clerk "late of 89 Lower Mount St and 37 College Green both in Dublin." He left effects of 235 pounds and the primary beneficiary was someone called Benjamin Newport White who was a brewer.

In the 1901 census Margaretta was boarding at the house of Mrs. Margaret Hannan in Kilbride. It gives her place of birth as Wexford, it says she could read and write, was single and had no occupation. Religion: Church of Ireland.

The probate record for Julia Anne says that she died at Ard Aalin Mental Hospital. She was 86 though, maybe she had senile dementia.

Heths

All the scenarios are plausible. But consider this. I have researched a family for a friend. A child was born when the "mother" was a widow. Generations later eyebrows are raised. The truth was the "mother" took in a child of a single mother and treated the little girl as her own and the child became known as a daughter of the "mother".

Going back to my original post has anyone found details of a marriage of major nathaniel vicary to a Jane possibly in India about 1850.

Interested to know where you found the pension records for Nathaniel Vicary?

Susan,
As Heather reported they are on FMP
Also on FMP there is a lot more info about Major N Vicary
1. His detailed sign up papers in 1825 for the Bengal army. Details include his baptism (1805 Dublin), his parents names (Benjamin and Margaret). Benjamin was a solicitor in Wexford in 1825. Nathanial was educated (Classical and Mathematical) in Wexford.

So Major Vicary was at least 25 yrs older than his wife Jane

2. British Newspaper articles (Search surname Vicary, first name Major)
Answers show that he was eminent in the field of Geology (specifically of the slopes of Himalayas in Bengal.
1861 he was inducted as a Member of Royal Geological Society in London

Specifically, on 2 December 1850 there is a report he had just given a lecture on this subject in London.
Note that his daughter Margaretta was born in Nov 1850 but was baptised in CALCUTTA in February 1851 (FMP). So she really was born in Wexford as she later declared. And Major Vicary was already retired in 1850
Conclusion, he took his wife and newly born first child to be baptised in Calcutta. Question: why? Presume that is where his wife's parents were and they wanted to show them their grandchild. All their other children were born Wexford.

3. Search Irish Newspapers for Benjamin Vicary.
Lots of answers
Conclusion Nathanial,s family was eminent there. His father a solicitor, his brother (also Benjamin) became Town Clerk and Mayor.

Dave

I still couldn’t find any marriage for Nathaniel Vicary to Jane. I did find a mention of him in the British Army Dispatch though, which said that from May 16 to October 15 1849 he would be in Subathoo on private business. Could he have got married in Subathoo, bearing in mind the first child was born in 1850?

As they had a son called Charles Napier, I wondered if that was Jane’s maiden name. When I looked into it I found that Lieut. General Sir Charles Napier was the commanding officer who chose Nathaniel to explore the mineral structure of the province. He was quite old and died in 1853. It looks like the child was named after him as a token of respect or affection.

From The Weekly Freeman’s Journal of 10/12/1853 : Dec 3 in Wexford, the lady of Major N. Vicary, a daughter.
This will be Julia’s birth, but why does it say lady rather than wife? Does it mean that they weren’t married? Or that she was a Lady?

Newspaper announcement of Jane’s death: At Warrenpoint, Jan 23rd, Jane widow of the late Major Vicary, Bengal Fusiliers. Internment at Clonallon.

I found the will of Nathaniel’s father Benjamin. His lands were to be held by some clergyman with the rents from them going to a spinster daughter Patience. Everything else (apart from furniture) to go to Nathaniel’s two brothers. The brothers were also to get the land after Patience died. All that Nathaniel got was a bookcase.

Heths

Does anyone have access to an old copy of Who’s Who? This seems to be quite a prominent family, possibly their details might be listed ?

Heths

The Lady of or the wife of were used interchangeably in those days. In Irish Newspapers (FMP) she is wife of or lady of (different newspapers) for Benjamin (1859) and for Nathanial (1855) she is wife. For Charles Napier she is Lady.

I have looked at burial records at Arbory (Family Search)
1927 Margaretta (original image) is in Grave 209
1929 Julia Bertha(original image) is in Grave 198
1940 Julia Anne (transcript) indicates a probate to Florence Bertha's son
1943 No online record.

Someone (Julia Anne and/or Nathanial Q went to a lot of trouble and expense to transfer Florence Bertha from London to burial in Isle of Man, which must have included a sea crossing.
I would thin that if she was daughter of Jane she would have been sent to Newry to be buried with her.
She is not buried in the same grave with Margaretta.
I wonder if she is in with Julia Ann, and I wonder which grave Nathanial Q is in!!
I suspect Julia Ann was her mother, (and I wonder if Nathanial Q was the father)


Possibly an email to the church would get the original details of Julia Ann and Nathanial Q.
The MI's might also be revealing!!
Dave

PS In irish newspapers following the 1863 death of Major Vicary there is a detailed sale of his house contents at West Gate. Another earlier article describes that large West Gate property (which included a Coach House)

This is starting to read just like one of those novels by William Trevor.

From what I can make out, following the death of Major Nathaniel his widow Jane first of all tried to let out their house at Westgate, Wexford. By January 1866 she was at 2 Fair St in Drogheda where she opened a music and singing academy. In March of the same year she advertised that she also taught drawing, French and English.

In March 1880 she gave instructions to sell at auction at "her residence called Musical Academy, Lucan" all her household furniture and other effects, including the piano. By March 1883 she was advertising that she had a school (Seaview, Warrenpoint, Newry) for day boys under the age of 10.

Her knowledge of French, drawing and music indicate that she must have had a good education herself. Whoever she was, she came from a well-off family.

Heths

Dave T: Someone (Julia Anne and/or Nathanial Q went to a lot of trouble and expense to transfer Florence Bertha from London to burial in Isle of Man,...

Florence Bertha died at Douglas:
Mona's Herald, Wednesday, May 15, 1929
DEATHS
MERCER – On May 10th, at Douglas, Florence Bertha Mercer, …

According to the original burial record on Family Search Florence Bertha she died at Nobles Hospital, 16 Ainsdale Rd Ealing, London.
Dave

However there is no matching death registration.
Hmmm?
Dave
Edit She was a nurse. Sp presumably the London Hospital address was her ref address, not where she died. OH DEAR

Nobles Hospital is on the Isle of Man. Address is Strang, Douglas.
The Ealing address was presumably her home.

Heths

My thanks to Terry and Heths for straightening me out.
Back to square one on who was the mother of Florence, though we can probably eliminate Margaretta.
Dave

My thanks to you all, you've found amazing pieces of information. I feel very inadequate. I am hoping to see my friend this week and she will be staggered with all the new details. I will of course have to admit it wasn't me!!
I hope you've all enjoyed this move away from Yorkshire!!:

One final possibility on the identity of JANE Vicary
Heather said in an earlier reply
"As they had a son called CHARLES NAPIER, I wondered if that was Jane’s maiden name. When I looked into it I found that Lieut. General Sir Charles Napier was the commanding officer who chose Nathaniel to explore the mineral structure of the province. He was quite old and died in 1853. It looks like the child was named after him as a token of respect or affection."

What about this from FMP:

Feb 19 1833 Baptism at St John Cathedral CALCUTTA: JANE NAPIER FLEMING b 28 Oct 1832, daughter of the late CHARLES Fleming, Planter? Esq and JANE, NAPIER, his wife.
A lot of coincidences there, and she would have been just 18 when Margaretta was born.
Dave

This may be a red herring, but I was wondering why Jane sold all her furniture and moved up to Sea View, Warrenpoint in 1880 and I found this:

Morning Post London, 1st July 1887
McAnally - On the 26th ult. at Sea View Warrenpoint, County Down, Jane relict of Acheson A. McAnally, surgeon 44th Regiment, Bengal N.I.

Could these have been Jane Vicary’s parents?

Heths

Pleas ignore my last message about the birth of Jane Napier Fleming in Calcutta in 1832. She was actually Jane Napier HUNTER, daughter of the late Charles FLEMING HUNTER and she died in Calcutta in 1839.
Time to give up
Dave

Hi Heather et al,

The definition given for the word "RELICT"
is primarily: widow
but can also mean: survivor

HAPPY HUNTING:sleuth_or_spy:

I had a quick look at Jane McAnally, the army widow who had died at the Sea View address in 1887. Her marriage to Acheson Archibald McAnally was only in 1849 and so she wouldn’t have been Jane Vicary’s mother. Acheson did have a previous wife and I found records for 3 of their children. I couldn’t link him to Jane Vicary though.

Heths