Sheffield Indexers

Welcome to our forum ~ please post your questions below.

Sheffield Indexers
Start a New Topic 
Author
Comment
View Entire Thread
Re: Brick wall!!

KERRY
Only £7.00 for the pdf version.
Please let us know what you find
Dave

Re: Brick wall!!

Thanks Dave

Yes I will let you know.
Thanks again everyone.

Kerry

Re: Brick wall!!

Good morning everyone

Just an update. I ordered the birth certificate for John Thomas Jackson as a pdf on the 8th February. This morning I got an email saying they had refunded my money as they couldn’t find him.
I guess I’m back to square one!!
Not sure where to go from here, I’ve read his school record on here again and I don’t understand what it means by Re-entered and Marked off in error. It states under the Parent or Guardian bit that it’s William and Emma, if I was to go to the archives and look at the original record would it tell me if they were actually his parents or his guardians?
The 1881 census states he is the son of William and Emma and he is 9 years old and at school, I can’t find him on any census beyond 1881. If he’s adopted or someone else’s son then I just haven’t a clue!!

Have a great day.😊

Kerry.

Re: Brick wall!!

Kerry
That is a very strange response from GRO.
Would you mind please forwarding their email; to me?
Dave

Re: Brick wall!!

I have been in touch with the GRO regarding this certificate and asked them to clarify the reason for the refund.
The certificate is unreadable and doesn’t meet their criteria for sending it out therefore they can’t be 100% certain I’ll be getting the right one. She advised me to ring Sheffield and speak to them.
Sheffield are not taking any calls at the moment!! It’s really not my day!😢
I have sent them an email enquiry asking if there’s is any better so that I can perhaps order it from them. Watch this space!
Thank you to Dave T for your help and advice with this matter.☺️

Kerry.

Re: Brick wall!!

H Kerry,

There are two entries for John Thomas Jackson in the school admissions database.

Jackson, Jno Thos (Student, dob 26 Jan 1872).
Parent or guardian name(s): Wm & Emma (File Cutter), of 2 Penns Rd.
Admitted to Heeley Bank Boys School, Heeley, as of 12 Jul 1880,
until ~, reason for leaving: ~. Previously attended St Marys.
Remarks: Hemsworth Common.
Find Similar at Same Address if Available Surname Match if Available

Jackson, John Thos (Student, dob 26 Jan 1872).
Parent or guardian name(s): William & Emma (~), of 2 Penns Rd.
Admitted to Heeley Bank Boys School, Heeley, as of 12 Jul 1880,
until ~, reason for leaving: ~. Previously attended Heeley Bank Bd.
Remarks: Reentered. Name Marked off in error.

Looking at DaveT's suggestion with the Penns Rd there are indeed a list of possible siblings. John T being the eldest. Have you tried tracing a John Thomas Glaves if he was illegitimate.

If he did indeed attend St Mary's, I presume it is the one on Bramall Lane. Would it help trying to trace the school admissions for that school?

Elaine in Ottawa,

Re: Brick wall!!

Thank you Elaine
I think I’m long overdue a trip to the archives, it’s definitely on my to do list.
On the first entry under remarks, what does it mean when it says Hemsworth Common?
He had several siblings, he’s the only one I can’t follow up on.
I did look to see if he was illegitimate but he’s right in the middle of his siblings so his parents were definitely married when he was born. Unless he is someone else’s and was taken in by this family as was suggested before.

Kerry

Re: Brick wall!!

I dont know that side of Sheffield at all.

Google Hemsworth Common. Vague memory of hearing about Hemsworth Collery.

Do you have FMP?

The census you say he is on I can't see it. (FMP) William & Emmas birthdates would be helpful.

Elaine.

Re: Brick wall!!

Hemsworth is a region of Norton and is about a mile from Penns Road Heeley.
Dave

Re: Brick wall!!

Hi Elaine

Dave just beat me to it! I just Googled Hemsworth common and it said Norton, Lightwood area.
Johns father William was born in 1842 in Belper, I don’t have an exact DOB. His mother Emma was born in Sheffield on 10/12/1844. In 1881 they lived at 2 Penns Road, Heeley.
I have subscriptions to both FMP and Ancestry.

Kerry.

Re: Brick wall!!

Hi Kerry & Dave,

Just so you know I have not lost the plot...LOL.

2 Penns Road, Heeley-Gleadless.......taken from the 1881 census.

Thats quite a hike for young John Thomas to go to school at St Mary`s So is that the school entry that has the errors in it.

Wm (file cutter) & Emma married Sep 1862 in Sheffield 9c 448.

Margaret Emma born Dec qtr 1863 EB 9c 267.
Son William Firdinando 1868 Sheffield EB 9c 289

Elizabeth Joanna 11 (June qtr 1870 EB 278)
John Thos 9 (March qtr 1872 EB 9c 272)
Henry 7 (Registered as Harry Marc qtr 1874 EB 9c320)
these three born Norton Dbys

Frank 1876 Sheffield.
George 1878 born Sheffield.

I have checked the seven children out (GRO) and they were all registered in Ecclesall Bierlow.

I can not find baptisms for any of them. My thinking was though they may have been married in Sheffield (Do you know where) were they Methodists etc. AND could the marriage have been a Registry Office one.

You may know all of this but others that might see a way of finding more about John Thos probably dont.

Lets give Kerry a prod in the right direction......

Elaine in Snowy Ottawa.

Re: Brick wall!!

These are the children I have for William and Emma:
Margaret Emma 1863 E/B
Alice Maud Mary 1866 Sheffield
William Ferdinando 1867 E/B
Elizabeth Joanna 1870 Norton
John Thomas 1872 Norton
Harry 1874 Norton
Frank 1876 Sheffield
George 1878 E/B
Alfred 1880 Sheffield
Fred 1883 Sheffield

I also cannot find baptisms for any of them.

I think Elaine is correct about the school entry having errors in it, it seems more likely that Hemsworth means something as it’s nearer to Penns Road.

William and Emma were married on 27 August 1862 at St Mary’s church on Bramall Lane.

Thanks everyone.😊

Re: Brick wall!!

AND St Mary`s Bramall Lane is the school where John Thomas supposedly started school

I have just checked the Baptisms for Bramall Lane and there are No Jacksons baptised there. We have not transcribed the registers but S&DFHS has.

So more research from you I am afraid.

Elaine.

Re: Brick wall!!

Oh well, it keeps me out of trouble!!😂

I’ll keep looking and let you know of anything interesting I may find along the way.

Thank you

Kerry.

Re: Brick wall!!

How about this.

GLAVES, Emma (of , born b Dec 10th 1844).
Baptised Nov 12th 1848, by ? at All Saints Ecclesall, Sheffield.
Parents name(s) are Elizabeth & Thomas (table blade forger).

Elaine.

Re: Brick wall!!

I knew her parents were Thomas and Elizabeth Glaves (nee Steel) but I didn’t know where she’d been baptised if at all.
I will add this information to my tree. Thank you

Kerry.

Re: Brick wall!! - Hemsworth Common

“On the first entry under remarks, what does it mean when it says Hemsworth Common? “

Elaine in Ottawa’s message has the transcriptions for the JTJ’s school register entries.
Images of these “Heeley Bank boys” registers are at https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C955-T3LL-4?i=441&cat=505525
The 1st item (Remarks: Hemsworth Common) is at image 429.
The 2nd is at image 506.

The “Hemsworth Common” entry is in the “Remarks” column of image 429. Image 429, and the images immediately around it, have this hand-written into the Remarks header: Where born.

Re: Brick wall!! - Hemsworth Common

Just to add my twopennorth for what it's worth.
I grew up in the area in question and yes, Penns Road was in the Heeley district, Hemsworth was part of Norton.
Looking at my Aspinall school records on here, the dates and information is all over the place so I wouldn't place any definite dates etc. as true.
One of my Aspinall entries is in "evening school" as an infant at a time when leaving school age was 13 and then they went to evening school if chosen.
St.Wilfred's mentioned was what was termed a "Special School" for pupils with disabilities not specifically RC.
There was also Heeley National School on Gleadless Road built 1801 near to Penns Road which was oftem termed as "private". My mum, who's now 97 says that some of her Aspinall family went there but, as their father was a shoe mender I doubt they'd be fee paying.
There's a lot of ambiguity around school records.

Regards,
Marlene

Re: Brick wall!! - Hemsworth Common

2 things to add on the Jackson school records.
1. It is clear that they moved adresses several times between 1871 and 1881. their final move to Penns Road Heeley was in 1880 when John Thomas changed from St Mary School to Heeley Bank. In 1871 they lived at Fentonville Gardens, Sharrow but in between had a spell in Norton until at least 1874 then back to the Bramall Lane Area till 1880.

2. The following school record is also relevant to this family and to 2 Penns Road.
Schofield, Fredk (Student, dob 20 Nov 1884).
Parent or guardian name(s): Margaret Schofield (~), of 2 Penns Rd.
Admitted to Heeley Bank Boys School, Heeley, as of 18 Jan 1892,
until ~, reason for leaving: ~. Previously attended Private (Miss Morris).
Schofield, Fred (Student, dob 20 Nov 1884).
Parent or guardian name(s): Margaret Schofield (~), of 236 Richards Rd.
Admitted to Heeley Bank Boys School, Heeley, as of 18 Jan 1892, readmitted 19 May 1894
until 17 May 1893, reason for leaving: Left District. Previously attended Private (Miss Morris').

Compare to these:
Jackson, Fred (Student, dob 10 Apr 1883).
Parent or guardian name(s): William Jackson (~), of 2 Penns Rd.
Admitted to Heeley Bank Boys School, Heeley, as of 18 Jan 1892,
until ~, reason for leaving: ~. Previously attended Private (Miss Morris).
Jackson, Fred (Student, dob 10 Apr 1883).
Parent or guardian name(s): William Jackson (~), of 2 Penns Rd.
Admitted to Heeley Bank Boys School, Heeley, as of 18 Jan 1892,
until 07 Mar 1905, reason for leaving: Left District. Previously attended Private (Miss Morris').


So Margaret Jackson, William and Emma's firstborn, married Fred Schofield in 1883 and they had Fred in 1884. Fred the father died age 24 in 1889 around the time Fred junior would start school. It looks like Margaret and Fred Jr moved in with her parents and Fred Jr started school at Private, Miss Morris where his uncle Fred Jackson was already. Both were transferred from there, on the same day, 18 Jan 1892, to Heeley Bank.
Dave



Re: Brick wall!! - Hemsworth Common

No Edit function!!!
PS I suspect 2 dates in the above records
17th May 1893 should be 17th May 1895
7th Mar 1905 should be 7 Mar 1895 (he cannot have stayed at school to age 22)

Dave

Re: Brick wall!! - Hemsworth Common

Thank you everyone for all your answers and research into this.
I have a little update - Sheffield reg office have emailed me back this morning to say that they do hold the birth certificate for John Thomas Jackson with the details I gave them so it sounds like he is the son of William and Emma, however, I will order the certificate and when it arrives I will know for definite if this is the case. I will let you know what it says when I get it.

Thank you all again

Kerry

Re: Brick wall!! - Hemsworth Common

There is a question-mark about the school leaving date for Fred Jackson.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C955-T3LN-6?i=485&cat=505525 has the record (admission number 348).

If I read across the pages correctly the leaving date was 30 12 97.
I think the "left dist" relates to the entry above (Albert Jones).

As an aside 16 of the 40 entries on this page of the register had come from "Private Miss Morris."

Re: Brick wall!! - Hemsworth Common

Hi Terry,

Thank you for letting us know about the date error. I have checked it on the link you supplied and I agree with you.

Could I ask you a favour please.

In our database we have another entry for Fred Jackson admin # 218 which I have looked at and not the same name at all.

You seem to be much more conversant with the Family Search database could I ask you you see if you can find the one we have in our database.

I no longer have the material we used for our transcription.

Elaine in Ottawa.

Re: Brick wall!!

Have replied by email to Elaine in Ottawa.

Re: Brick wall!!

Good afternoon everyone

I hope this finds you all well and not too tired after giving up an hours sleep!😜

Just a little update:
I ordered the certificate from Sheffield but Royal Mail decided they were either gonna lose it or just not bother! After A LOT of emailing and phone calls, a lovely lady made it her mission to deal with this personally and couldn’t apologise enough. She has checked every detail for me before issuing the certificate and rung me at every stage of the process. She confirmed on Friday that all the details match and she was sending it out, hopefully I will have it by Tuesday, if I don’t have it by Friday I’ve got to ring her again.
So from what I have been told John Thomas Jackson is the son of William Jackson and Emma Glaves and was born in 1872 in the Ecclesall Bierlow area of Sheffield, I told her I had DOB of 26/1/1872 and although she hasn’t confirmed it, she hasn’t said it’s different either. All I need to do now is find out when he died and if he lived long enough to get married and have children.

Thank you again for all your help with this, it’s much appreciated.

Enjoy the rest of your weekend.

Kerry.