Welcome to our forum ~ please post your questions below.
Hi could anyone help me with James Turner born 1874 London. He is in Sheffield marrying Emma Jane Hill in 1893. Her dad is George Hill, his dad is John Turner born ----?.
I can only find him on 1901 census with wife Emma Jane (hill) and children George 1914, Blanche 1893, Alice, 1900 James, Harold, and Annie 1896. at Sanderson St.
On the 1911 census he is missing, his family are at 34 Swallow St, I'm thinking he is possibly in the army. but again hit dead ends. I can not find him before 1893 or after 1901. Any info On James or John Turner would be gratefully received.
Could this be the family in 1891.
1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Grosvenor Street, Islington, London & Middlesex, England
Household members (5 people)
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
George Turner Head
Married Male 58 1833 G labourer London, Middlesex, England
Caroline Turner Wife
Married Female 58 1833 - London, Middlesex, England
James Turner Son
Single Male 17 1874 G labourer London, Middlesex, England
Kate Turner Sister
Single Female 33 1858 Paper box maker London, Middlesex, England
Caroline Woodward Niece
- Female 1 1890 - London, Middlesex, England
Have you looked at FreeCen for the census records.
They are still on Swallow Street in 1921 census. Emma Jane is Head and a widow.
Hi Elaine no I don't think it is his family as James's dad is called John Turner! But I don't have any dates for him. I got it on here off James marriage to Emma. But thank you..Lorraine
That's brilliant Dave thank you. I wounder if he died in the War? Look like I need a trip to the library.. Thank you again
where was Swallow Street, could he be buried in Sheffield but its not on this site.
Maybe a red herring, but here goes...
The witnesses at the 1893 marriage of James and Emma were George Maxfield Yates and Charlotte Yates.
James gave his address as Darnall.
In the 1891 census, there’s a George and Charlotte Yates living in Attercliffe *** Darnall, and they have a boarder called James Turner who is the right age to be your man. The only problem is that it says James was born in Rotherham, but apart from that it’s a bit of a coincidence.
Heths, that is a great find. Following up on that lead:
George Maxfield Yates married Charlotte TURNER in Doncaster 1886
1881 Census in Brampton, Rotherham:
John Turner Head 37 Ag Lab
Elizabeth Wife 37
CHARLOTTE dau 15
Joseph son 9
JAMES son 6
Harriet dau 4
Frederick Son 2
So the coincidence is even bigger.
It looks like the 1901 census is in error when it says James was born in London.
PS the 1921 Census for Emma Jane gives her birth place as Horton Berry Surrey.
Brilliant, great find guys. I've been having trouble find much at all to link things up. Their place of birth changes on nearly every census. Ill follow this up.
Dave you say on 1921 census Emma is a widow, but we can find a burial for James. So I'm wondering if he went to war.
On 1911 census I found a James Turner, born Clapton, London, Rank Private, 1st Middlesex Regt looked like he was going to India. I thought this might of been him because of place of birth on 1901 census but now I'm not so sure.
do you think War is a possibility?
Thanks again everyone, special thanks to Dave and Heather
sorry let e change that. its the
Duke of Cambridges Own. (Middlesex Reg)
Army/war is, given his age, unlikely. The problem seems to have already started by 1911, 3 years before the war. On CWGC there is no death recorded for a James Turner in his 40s. That is not conclusive because there are James Turner deaths with no age recorded.
They were still in Sanderson Street in 1908 when Harold was baptised, so the move to Swallow Street (a short distance) happened after that.
I cannot find a baptism for George (b 1914).
Do you have the birth certificate for George (1914)? I am wondering if perhaps James registered the birth. That would be useful to know.
It looks like Emma Jane was not yet a widow in 1921, even though she said she was. I looked for her sons Harold (1908) and James (1903) because they were not with her in 1921 in Swallow St.
It turns out they were at 59 Monmouth Street, Ecclesall Bierlow with their FATHER JAMES TURNER. married, b 1876 LAUGHTON-EN-LE-MORPHEN, Rotherham. Also with them were 2 more children of James, Joseph (b 1913) and Nellie (b 1916) and a "housekeeper" Jessie Lowe.(b Eckington 1884).
There is no doubt this is the right man because of his exact birthplace and the presence of sons James and Harold. The id of their mother is still to be established, but from a combination of GRO index and Parish baptisms she was Mary Eleanor nee Hodgson
So it seems that James abandoned Emma Jane for another woman, with whom he had at least 2 more children. Interestingly it would seem that son Joseph (b q4 1913) was born just a few months before Emma Jane gave birth to George (q1 1914).
Your James Turner, (born in Brampton) died in 1934 at 12 Herries Road age 57 and is buried in General Cemetery Sharrow in the same grave as his “wife” Mary Eleanor Turner (formerly Davison, nee Hodgson) who died 5th Oct 1919 at 59 Monmouth St. Also with them is son John died 30th Nov 1920 age 13 months. He died at 115 Jubilee St, the home of James sister Harriet Lee (nee Turner, born Brampton).
The birth of John (1919) and his older siblings Nellie (1916) and Joseph (1913) can be found on GRO index MMN Hodgson and the baptisms (from 59 Monmouth St) of Nellie and John are on FMP, father James, mother Mary Eleanor.
Going back to 1911, Mary Eleanor Davison, 35, widow was a domestic in Chapel-en-le-Frith and born in Bishop Auckland. Except she was not a Widow. Her husband George Davison (b 1872)(farmer), married but wife missing, was still in in Great Aycliffe Darlington where they and son George had been living in 1901 (young George died before 1911) .
George is still there on his farm in 1921, now a widow (had he heard of her death?) with housekeeper Elizabeth Shaw and adopted son Norman W Shaw
So James left wife Emma Jane and Mary Eleanor left husband George, both by 1911.
They were definitely together by early 1913 (son Joseph born Q4)
As I already indicated, on 1921 census James was with sons James and Harold (Emma Jane’s) and Joseph and Nellie (Mary Eleanor’s) at 59 Monmouth St, with a housekeeper (single).
I wonder who was the father of Emma Jane’s son George born Q1 1914?
“Oh what a tangled web we weave”
Thankyou so much Dav, that's fascinating so much information, I really appreciate your time and effort spend on this for me.
I am Sorry for my late reply. A half faulty hinge on my laptop that I should of got mended months ago, blew my laptop. Which in turn then couldn't be mended. Happily I have now got a new one. (lesson)-Next time I'll mend the few quid fault. Anyway thanks to you I'm back on track thank you. Lorraine