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I have a marriage for Mary Dunkerley and Charles Hall in 1869 at St Jude’s . They also marry in 1881 at St Paul’s. Mary is still a Dunkerley spinster. I know for certain that this is the same couple but why did they marry twice ?
Louise
The two marriages show that on each occasion Mary Dunkerly was a WIDOW with father name Samuel Bray.
There ia a marriage for John Dunkerley to Mary Bray in Ashton in Q1 1856 and a birth in Stockport for a Herbert Dunkerley mmn Bray in Q1 1857.
In the 1871 census in Hunsley St Brightside there is a Hall family:
Charles 34 b Glossop,
Mary 33 b Glossop
Herbert 14 b Hyde Cheshire (that is close to Stockport)
Wilfred 8 b Glossop
Checking back on GRO for Wilfred he seems to have been Wilfred Dunkerly b Hayfield (Glossop) in 1861. However the mother maiden name is blank implying that he was illegitimate.
It seems that something happened between Mary and her husband John between 1857 and 1861 and Wilfred was not John's child.
Did they separate or did he die?
Was her first marriage to Charles Hall not legal?
You need to find what happened to John Dunkerley and when.
Unfortunately there are lots of deaths in that time period for John Dunkerleys. You need to identify him by purchasing the 1856 marriage certificate.
Dave
No Edit function!!!
Should have added that the 1871 census record in Hunsley St also hae a Thomas BRAY as boarder.
Good Reply DaveT.
I wonder........I checked on FMP for both of the marriages and yes they look like the same couple.
I have just tried to retrace my step when I worked on it last night and I also believe that Charles was a widow. That is prior to his 1869 marriage.
Also I was able to find Mary Bray on the 1841 & 1851 census. NOT the 1861 or 1881 after the two marriages.
Its a very interesting question.
I was told many years ago that if as in this case the husband John Dunkerley went AWOL for what ever reason they could be declared dead after seven years. So the first marriage could have taken place. If John was later found & then passed away the first marriage would be null & void so the 2nd marriage would have taken place....... Just a guess on my part.
BUT one would have expected a note in the register.
I had this situation happen in my family. It may not have been legal but another marriage did take place.
Elaine.
PS/Edit. Just to add Hayfield Glossop where the Bray's seem to live is covered by #19 and 7b registration districts.
Mary may have had a twin sister Catherine registered in 1838 mmn Cooper.
Thankyou for your hard work however I do have the information you found. I also have John and Mary’s marriage certificate which states that he is of age and his father is Daniel Dunkerley. John does seem to disappear though and cannot be found after his marriage in 1856. I believe I have found their son Herbert in 1861 under Herbert Domcaly , boarder.
I hadn’t considered that the marriage might be illegal on Mary’s part but wondered if it has ever been known for thd Vicar or registrar to have unknowingly been performing marriages?
Louise
Thankyou Elaine. I too cannot find Mary in 1861 but I have found her with Charles and the son Wilfred living at Wood GroveLane , Sheffield. I have Charles and Mary’s marriage certificate from 1869 which states that he was 21 and a bachelor.
It is starting to make sense that John is the one to trace. I have been looking for him years. There are many John Dunkerley who died at the time .
Louise
Louise, there is no doubt you have found Herbert in 1861 as Domcaley in Glossop.
The 1861 Census was taken on 7th April 1861 and the birth of Wilfred Dunkerly was registered about 3 weeks into July. So wherever Mary was at the census she was at least 6 months pregnant.
The birth cert for Wilfred should be a good investment ($7 as PDF). It will tell you exactly where and when he was born and who registered the birth and when. Maybe there will be a clue as to why he is apparently registered as illegitimate.
Interestingly, Wilfred later married under the name Hall not Dunkerly, but Herbert married as Herbert Hall Dunkerley. This perhaps implies that Wilfred was actually the son of Hall
Dave
It might be me just being paranoid but are you sure that Charles Hall that married in 1881 is the same Charles Hall? I am just looking at his signatures
Louise
On the 1856 marriage of John Dunkerley to Mary Bray, what is john's occupation please?
Dave
He is a millwright
John, both fathers names are the same and their professions are the same. Af the 1881 marriage Mary’s son Herbert is a witness so I’m certain they are thd same.
Louise
Just to add if you have not already noticed we have at least five of Herbert's children's baptisms at St Philips in our data base. They were all baptised on the same date Feb 25th 1885. On the 1911 census he states he has had 14 children of which two had died.
Elaine.
Is the Charles Hall buried at Burngreave in 1884 aged 47 our Charles Hall and if so do the others in the grave help and also then did Mary marry again?
It is the Charles Hall buried at Burngreave. I cant figure out a connection with others in the same grave but thanks to your suggestion I have found that Mary did marry again to a James Reeve. When Mary dies she is buried with her son Herbert and his wife.
Louise, thanks for the occupation. Sorry I should also have asked for his address at the time of the marriage in 1856 please.
Are you aware of the following two newspaper articles in 1862
Huddersfield Chronicle August 16th
Glossop Record Nov 1st
In the first a John Dunkerley of Quickwood near Mossley was found guilty of assaulting his wife
and sentenced to 14 days at Wakefield house of correction.
In the second, quite a long article, a young woman called Ann Davies is found guilty of stealing clothing (including a baby jacket) from the house of John Dunkerley, Glossop. On reading the full article it is clear that although it was the house of John Dunkerley, he was not there. His wife MARY Dunkerley was the person showing kindness to Ann Davies and providing her with a bed for the night, and it was she (Mary Dunkerley)who chased the accused (about 6am) and brought her to court.
Food for thought
Dave
The address given is just Ashton. They are married at Ashton Under Lyne.
Thd newspaper articles are interesting. Mary was born in Glossop and her son Herbert is a boarder there in 1861. Thankyou for that. I don't have access to newspaper reports or censuses at this point. I'm getting nearly all of my information from Sheffield Indexers.
Dave, just discovered that Mossley is in Ashton Under Lyne. The plot thickens
Louise
Elaine. I wonder why 5 children were baptised one the same day. Perhaps they just didn’t get round to it.
I have some confusion over Mary’s twin. She seems to be called Martha or Katherine or Catherine. Censuses give conflicting ages for the girls. It does seem that she died in 1861.
Here is the source of the so called 7 year rule referred to by Elaine.
Section 57 of the Offences Against the Person Act 1861 deals with BIGAMY and, after defining bigamy and stating that the penalty for the offence is custodial for up to 7 years, the key part of that section for us is the following exception:
PROVIDED, THAT NOTHING IN THIS SECTION CONTAINED SHALL EXTEND........TO ANY PERSON MARRYING A SECOND TIME WHOSE HUSBAND OR WIFE SHALL HAVE BEEN CONTINUALLY ABSENT FROM SUCH PERSON FOR THE SPACE OF SEVEN YEARS THEN LAST PAST, AND SHALL NOT HAVE BEEN KNOWN BY SUCH PERSON TO BE LIVING WITHIN THAT TIME.
This means that, assuming John Dunkerley absconded then Mary his wife could marry again, without committing a felony, once 7 years had passed since his disappearance, PROVIDED she had no knowledge within that time of his whereabouts or whether he was alive or dead. To marry she had no need to go to the law, nor to have him declared officially dead. She was perfectly entitled to get married declaring herself a widow. No need to give the vicar any indication of her previous marriage so no need for any note in the register. If she was aware John was still alive then she committed bigamy and could be gaoled if discovered.
If John later turned up that would NOT annul her marriage to Charles Hall.
Note that she married Charles Hall in Q4 1869, so presumably for the 7 year rule to apply, John absconded before Q4 1862. That seems to potentially fit with both the newspaper articles I referred to (August and November 1862)
It was legally complex, and was a recently passed law. I wonder if something they later learned (about John) caused them to mistakenly believe that their marriage was void, so they married again.
Dave
Hi Louise,
They seem to move around quite often. As you say they didn't get around to it.
Happened quite often especially early on in the 1800's before many of the churches were built.
Have you checked on Family search they have census records on their site. We also have some records from 1861/71 census in the database.
Elaine.
Daft question, could she have left Charles Hall, got that marriage annulled married a Dunkeley (not necessarily John) then that Dunkeley had die and then remarried Charles Hall.
see told you it was daft.
"I have some confusion over Mary’s twin. She seems to be called Martha or Katherine or Catherine."
Go to the GRO and check out the year 1838. Registration district 19.
MMN Cooper.
1841 census..... check out Family Search for Glossop
1851 census Glossop.
1856 March qtr John Dunkerley & Mary Bray married Reg Aston 8d 510.
1861 census Herbert Domcaly (Dunkerley) aged 4 a Boarder born Hyde Cheshire.
Birth registered Stockport 8a 12 March qtr 1857.
1871 census
46 Hunsley St (Grimesthorpe) Sheffield.
Charles Hall h.m. 34 Machinist born Glossop Dbys.
Mary wife aged 33 shop keeper born Glossop
Herbert son aged 14 App born Hyde Cheshire.
(The reason I had thought Charles had been married prior to his marriage to Mary).
Wilfred son aged 8 born Glossop.
/
Thomas Bray 36 Boarder Lab in Iron Works born Glossop. (Mary's brother).
The 1881 marriage took place at Sheffield Parish Church.
Elaine.
Oops
Major rethink needed.
If you follow John Dunkerley's family in the censuses you find his parents (Daniel and Mary, both born 1814) and his brother William (b 1842 Stockport) in 1861.
It looks like mother Mary died 1865 (Ashton) and Father Daniel 1867 (stockport).
Brother William married in Ashton Q2 1865 (father name Daniel) but his wife Mary Ann (nee Barber) (21) died in Stockport Q1 1866. William (widower) re married in Stockport Q4 1866 (father Daniel)to Mary Ann Sale. A witness at that wedding (on FMP) was JOHN DUNKERLEY. That would seem to indicate that John Dunkerley did not abscond, at least not before Q4 1866.!!!!!
Dave
Louise, getting back to your original question, I now believe that there is a perfectly logical explanation for the double marriage, 12 years apart, of Charles Hall(bachelor) to Mary Dunkerley (widow).
It is clear that at the second marriage the couple are behaving as if they at least believe, and probably know, that their first marriage was null and void.
We now have strong indications (newspaper items) that in 1862 Mary was not with her first husband John Dunkerley and possibly he served time for assaulting her. We know that a John Dunkerley was witness at brother William’s 1866 marriage so presumably he was alive and known to his (estranged) wife then. Therefore, under the 1861 Act of Offences against the Person, the marriage of 1869 must have been bigamous on Mary’s part.
It was a new, complex law, and these were not very literate people. It was an easy mistake to make,. We do not know how, when and by whom she was made aware of the problem. Perhaps she served a penalty for the felony, perhaps the courts were lenient and let her off because it was an understandable, unwitting error. Regardless of that the marriage would, in law, be null and void, and she would be unable to re-marry until she became John Dunkerley’s widow.
I can find no registered death (Free BMD) in England and Wales between 1866 and 1881 of a person under the name of John Dunk*y and of the right age ie born 1836
It is unfortunate that Mary, John and Charles are not to be found on the 1861 census, and there is no further positive sighting alive of John thereafter.
There is hope that some light could be shed on this with the 1861 birth cert of Wilfred Dunkerley.
I have to say that when Herbert Hall Dunkerley married in 1876 I would have expected him to name his father as John Dunkerley (he was birth registered in 1857 as John’s son) but strangely he named his father as Charles Hall Dunkerley
I hope this all makes sense.
Dave
Hi Dave T,
If you or anyone has full access to UK Census On Line, there is a record for 1861 for a JOHN DUNKERLEY aged 25 (1836) Occ: Winder in a cotton factory in Lancashire.
HAPPY HUNTING :sleuth_or_spy:" target="_blank"> hope it works.
HAPPY HUNTING :sleuth_or_spy:" target="_blank">www.ukcensusonline.com hope it works.
HAPPY HUNTING :sleuth_or_spy:
OOPS. that did not work.
Thankyou everyone for your help on this. It is certainly a mystery. I dont have access to any censuses, only info that I can find free online. I wonder if Herbert was brought up as a Hall but wanted to be true to his actual surname so called himself Herbert Hall Dunkerley. As he was the last of the Dunkerleys born in that family it has meant that the family name carried on and multiplied.
I originally wondered if he might have gone abroad as many did at that time. Perhaps they lost contact with him and he was presumed dead.
Wendy, Thanks. Found it (in Oldham). He was married with a wife Elizabeth (nee Taylor) and 2yr old son James. He was also born in the wrong place (Saddleworth).
Dave
There is a very convenient death in Kings Ward, Brooklyn, New York in Sept 1879.
He died of Consumtpion. He was an Engineer, 42 (ie b abt 1837), married. His birth place (and those of his parents) given as England. He had lived there for 10 years.
So he arrived in Kings Ward Brooklyn about 1869 and he died in late 1879.
If he is correct that death would release Mary Dunkerley to marry Charles Hall in 1881.
Can anyone find him in USA please? Maybe 1870 census?
Dave
No edit function
Sorry should have said that death was a John Dunkerley
Dave
Possible find in USA in 1870 (on FMP) John Dunkeley aged 29 an Engineer born in England with a wife and 8 month old son.
Dave do you think it is our man?
I also have z John Dunkerley in the 69th Foot. Died in 1869 . Chelsea Hospital admissions
The John Dunkerley who died Chelsea in 1869 was 72 yrs old.
Dave
I will try to find it again and email it you
Dave, email sent. John
John, brilliant thank you. That closes the loop.
It's in Brooklyn, NYC and the 8 month old child is DAN born in NYC. Note that the John we are looking for was born 1836 in Stockport and his Father was DANIEL, who had recently died.(Q1 1867 Stockport)
So we can now place John Dunkerley at his brothers marriage on December 24 1866 in Prestwich. BY January 1870 he is in Brooklyn NYC because son Dan is born there to English born *wife*, Mary. Presumably they did not marry in England (that would be bigamy). Maybe they married In NYC , maybe they did not marry.
He dies in Brooklyn in Sept 1879 having lived there since 1869, allowing His widow, Mary nee Bray to finally and legally marry Charles Hall in England, which they did in 1881.
It has been a fascinating problem and it all fits together perfectly
End of story.
Dave
Wilfred’s birth certificate is ordered so we’ll see what that shows us. Meanwhile I have found a burial for a Daniel P Dunkerley, born 1869 Brooklyn , New York. Died 1928 and buried New Rochelle , New York. He was a Spanish American war soldier Sgt , 2nd marine corps. Enlisted Apr 1898
Louise, thanks. Great find. I assume you have followed the links to the various censuses for Daniel, 1875 and 1880 in particular. There is confusion over his mothers name and age and his 2 younger sisters are in 1875 but missing in 1880.
You have a whole new world to explore
looking forward to seeing what you find about Wilfred's birth.
Dave
Hi All,
There is a possible marriage in Stepney, Middlesex/London/England on BMD
JOHN DUNKERLEY M:1869 SEPT.QTR
TO
MARION PEERS
OR
ELIZABETH WISHART
Some Trees on Family Search Have son Daniel as DANIEL PEERCE (+variations)DUNKERLEY
Happy Hunting:sleuth_or_spy:
Great find Wendy. I guessed wrong again: John DID commit bigamy in England. But he did it a long way from home in Stepney in Q3 1869, as they were about to leave for USA (because on 20 May 1870 just 8 to 11 months later Daniel P Dunkerley was born in Brooklyn. Clearly John was not going to be caught for his felony.
Daniel was baptised Daniel PEERS Dunkerley at Trinity Church Brooklyn 20th June 1870.
In the 1875 NY State Census at 94 10th Street Brooklyn John (36??) and MARION (22??) have children Daniel 5, Harriet 4 and Mary 2, all 3 born NYC.
In the 1880 Federal Census there is a strange entry (John died the year before)
Mary (29) and Daniel (10) are living with 3 Irish born Kelly siblings (ages 35 to 40) on 4th Street and Mary (Marion) is said to be their sister and Daniel their brother. No sign of Harriet or young Mary, who would have been 9 and 7.
US censuses can be just as confusing as ours!!
Dave
Wilfred’s birth certificate hasn’t revealed anything new. He was born in Hayfield Glossop on 20 th July 1861. Mothers name Mary Dunkerly . Fathers name left blank.
Presume it was Mary that registered the birth.
Louise,
What was Mary's address Please?
I think it clearly says that John Dunkerley was not the father.
Dave
Yes Mary registered the birth. It just says Mary Dunkerley mother . Glossop. No maiden name or actual address. I’m guessing he is the son of Charles Hall !
Louise, that is a shame. There is usually an address on birth cert. Does it not give an address for place of birth?
Dave