Looking for Mary Shillito, born in Masbrough ca. 1780, became a lady's maid and followed her lady up to Northumberland. Family gets DNA matches to Richard and Francis Shillito families, two Masbrough brothers who attended Masbrough Independent Chapel. But their daughters named Mary died in infancy. Would appreciate help from anyone researching the name in the Masbrough area. Possibly we're looking at Richmond Park area.

Hi Diane,

From the Bishops Transcripts, Mary Shillito baptised 21 March 1779 at Rotherham, parents
are Francis and Mary.

Moira.

Hi Moira

There’s a burial 12 April 1779 for Mary, daughter of Francis and Mary Shillito of Rotherham.

Heths

Thanks so much for responding! Yes, this Mary Shillito, daughter of Francis and Mary, died a few months after birth. They had another daughter Lydia in Nov. 1781, who also died early in 1782. Other children follow at intervals of about 18 mos., including another Lydia. I am wondering if there was another Mary born during the 2 and 1/2 years between the first Mary and the first Lydia, one we cannot find in a parish register. Our Mary called her first daughter Lydia, and the names of her other children correspond to the names of Shillito children born to Francis and to Richard. Mary S born to James of Greasborough, and Mary S born to another Francis Shillito in Clarborough, Notts., both in 1775, married other people. One Mary S born in Leeds in 1780 or 81, daughter of William, also died in infancy.

Is it possible she was baptized under a different name, and was given the name Mary or Mary Ann in service?

Hi Diane,

Did Mary marry, or did she remain single? Did you find her in any census? If so what are the details?

Heths

Yes, she married John Gilley in Bolam parish, Northumberland, in 1808. Document available online, as are the baptisms of her children. Also census records from 1841 (Sunderland, living with her daughter) and 1851 (Sheffield, living with her son William, Police Superintendent). In the later census her place of birth is listed as Richmond, Yorkshire, but since no record of her birth appears in the city of Richmond, and the family record says Masbrough, I am wondering if she meant the Richmond Park neighborhood of Masbrough. Does anyone know if this neighborhood was once known as Richmond? Her death certificate says she was 81, as does an obit. But the tombstone said she was 77 at the time of her death. Which, I wonder, is likely to be more accurate?

Diane, on the death cert, who registered the death please?
Dave

Thanks--it's an official form, with information most likely provided by her son William, with whom she lived. I have a copy of the form, but will have to locate it in a while. A form I received from the Sheffield General Cemetery lists her age at death as 81, most likely taken from the certified death certificate. But that same form includes the inscription on her tombstone, where her age at death is given as 77. Either no one noticed the discrepancy or they couldn't explain it. Possibly someone confused the numbers, as if she was born in 1777 she would have been 81, but if she was born in 1781 she would have been 77. Census records for 1841 and for 1851 giver her age as 60, then as 70, but that might reflect some rounding off.

Diane
In the 1841 Census she is head of the household so she is likely to have been the person who gave her age. Also on the same page the enumerator does not seem to have been (consistently) rounding down so that lends credence to her really being 60 in 1841. In 1851 her son in law is head of house. He is likely to have asked either Mary or her daughter for her age, so that lends credence to her being 70 in 1851.
When she died she was living with her son so he is likely to have registered her death in a hurry. Of course he could not ask Mary, so he, like most sons, would have plumped for an age which would be part guesswork. As you said, the obit and burial record would use the same source, ie the death registration. We cast doubt on the accuracy of that. The Headstone is something put in place by the family in concert with a stonemason sometime after the burial. If the family discussed it they would likely come up with with an accurate age. There would be no referral to the death cert or the burial record. The church would simply record what the gravestone said (probably at some later date). There would be no query by the church about the discrepancy. There could be no correction of the death registration.
Dave

Thanks for your help! I do think a time frame of 1780 or 1781 is reasonable. I've looked at Mary Shillito born in Featherstone to Richard and Elisabeth in June of 1781, but that is far from Masbrough, where family information points. Census record of 1851 lists her birthplace as Richmond, Yorkshire, but no parish record has been found there, and that's not what we've been led to believe about her origins. She might have meant the Richmond Park neighborhood of Masbrough. Does anyone know if this neighborhood was referred to as Richmond in 18th and 19th centuries? Possibly she was baptized in a Non-Conformist chapel, especially given the fact that families of Richard (1753) and Francis (1755) attended Masbrough Independent Chapel.

Hi Diane,

I wonder if Rotherham Family History Society might be able to help. Especially as she might be a nonconformist.

Elaine in Florida.

Thanks for the suggestion--I've been in touch with Rotherham Archives to see what parish records they might have that are not accessible online. I'll try your suggestion too!

Diane, you said you have DNA matches to Richard and Francis. Can you be more specific about that please?, ie what is the relationship between the people whose DNA was measured. You do not need to give names, just relaionships to Mary, to Richard and to Francis..
Dave

My sister and I each get 2 DNA matches (14-16 centimorgens) to several descendants of Richard. A 4th cousin we have worked with on family history also gets two matches, not necessarily to the same descendants. Other have probably not checked. So the evidence is slight, but since any other Yorkshire family I might have would be at least 100 years back from the Shillitos, I'm thinking these matches are significant. Since we can't find a surviving Mary in the families of Richard and Francis, I'm wondering if she was the child of their sibling or cousin. So many details of this family and their location fit our family paper trail.

Diane, I was never doubting its significance. I am sure it is significant. What I would like to do is see if we can work out the relationship so we can point to a likely origin.
Can you please tell me
Your relationship to Mary
The relationship to Richard of each of your matches
The relationship to Richard of each of your 4th cousin's matches

Are you aware of matches to descendants of Francis?

Dave

Well, this is the best I can do now! Mary Shillito Gilley is my third great grandmother, through her son George, my grandmother's grandfather, and so my 2nd great grandfather. Her parents remain somewhat of a mystery. So my line goes from me, to my mother, to my grandmother, to my great-grandfather, to my great-great grandfather, to Mary SG. All of that I'm sure of.

Matches for me who include the name Shillito on their tree include two who descend, through Francis Shillito (1793-1841), from Richard Shillito (1753) and his father, Richard (1725 or 1731).

Match 1: From Richard (1725 or 1731) to Richard (1753) to Francis (1793) to Lydia (1826) to four more generations with different surnames.

Match 2: From Richard (1725 or 1731) to Richard (1753) to Francis (1793) to Richard (1814) to Lydia Ann (1844) to 4 more generations with different surnames.

One of my 4th cousins gets a match with someone with someone who also descends from Lydia Ann Shillito (1844) to Richard Shillito (1814) to Francis Shillito (1793), and back to Richard (1753) and Richard (1725 or 1731). Some years ago she mentioned a match back to the Richards through Richard's (1753) son James (1777). I'm afraid I don't remember the details. I believe my sister also noted a match through James (1777), but I don't have her details either.

As I look at this I would say the common ancestor might be Richard (1725 or 1731). Our family believes the Richard born in Warmsworth, Yorkshire and baptized in that year is our ancestor, given the names of siblings, similar or the same as the next generations in Rotherham/Masbrough, and also following the profession of tailor.

This is way too much detail, I'm sure! I owe someone else a big favor to pay it back!

Diane, thanks for that. Now it makes sense.
Assuming we have your Mary's birth year correct then it is clear she cannot have been a daughter of Richard b 1753. Also it is unlikely she was daughter of Richard's brother Francis b1755 because he had a daughter Mary b and died 1799 then Lydia bap 1781 and Francis b1783 so there is not much room there.
I wonder if your Mary could have been born illegitimate (and not baptised) to Mary b 1757, Sarah b 1759 or Elizabeth b 1763 (the latter would have been 17/18 in 1780). Both Elizabeth and Sarah married quite late.

Did you notice that both Richard and Francis seemed to have become Non-conformists after 1782.
Dave

Now my sister reports a match to a descendant of Richard Shillito (1753) through his daughter Lydia Shillito Chrimes (1790). This Richard also had a daughter Sarah, bap. 1775 according to parish records, who is left off from some trees. Then there is the "ghost" Mary Shillito who appears on some trees as baptized in 1790 along with Lydia, as if they were twins. This is an error, according to the person who posted the tree and got confused by the names, but many people have duplicated it. I've checked the parish records.


A small chance that Francis (1755) might have had another daughter called Mary in the window between the first Mary's death early in 1779 and the birth of his daughter Lydia, born late in 1781, 2 1/2 years later. But if so, why no baptismal record? Interesting that so far there are no matches from our little cluster to Francis, but 5 matches to descendants of Richard.


Yes, the possibility of Mary having been born to one of Richard and Francis's sisters did occur to us. But Mary (1757) was married to someone called Best by 1777, and having children with him. Sarah (1759) I thought died in 1763, but that could be an error on someone's tree, again reproduced by others. Will check the parish record. Possibly Elizabeth--will look into it. I thought too that Mary Wright Shillito, the mother of Richard (1731)'s children, had died about 1760? That Elizabeth and Joel were from a second marriage?


Also. I see many parish records for children born out of wedlock. Was it the case that they were less likely to be baptized, or baptized in another parish, if the family was embarrassed? Not sure.

Then there is the family tradition, written about by a descendant in the 1930s, that Marys father worked in the Masbrough Foundry. He seems to have been in the picture, unless the reference is to a stepfather or uncle who raised her.

Sorry for my details--you've been a great help!