G'day folks

Back in June y'all sorted out his son John's marriage.

I'm now trying to work out which marriage is correct and who's John's parents were. I'm hoping to get some assistance sorting this mess out please?

The marriages I got from your Parish Registers.

John Harrop married Sarah Smith Drake 24.5.1828
John Harrop married Sarah Lovatt 27.6.1830

No parents or his occupation named on the records I saw on your site.
First child Eliza born 29.11.1829
John the builder is the father

I had originally recorded Lovatt as wife and now I'm not so sure because Eliza's birth fits neatly into marriage of 1828.

I've 2 likely baptisms for John
2.10.1796 at St Chads parents are James and Betty Harrop of Tamewater
2.9.1796 at Holy Trinity Dobcross parents are James and Betty Harrop of Tamewater
2.10.1796 Bishops of Saddleworth, parents are James and Betty Harrop & no area mentioned

I just want to be certain of the correct marriage and his parents. I've done a lot of work on what I thought was his parents and not so sure now.

All suggestions welcome thank you
Leisa

Leisa,
According to our baptism records John Harrop the builder had several children with his wife Sarah. At least 2 of those children were born after 1837 which means you can look them up on GRO INDEX which gives their mother's maiden name.
Dave

The 3 baptism records you have for John Harrop in 1796 are actually 3 different records of the same baptism, which may have happened in St Chads or Holy Trinity. The 2 are linked and within a mile of each other. Most likely is Holy Trinity because it is closest to Tamewater.
Dave

Thanks Dave, I'm aware they pretty much the same record for him but felt best to include in my post.

Unfortunately it will be a few weeks before I get documents from GRO so hopefully one of you clever types on here may have an answer for me.

I'm in Western Australia so it's mail for me ....

Leisa, it does not matter where you are. Just register with GRO INDEX then search for your births. There is no cost involved. The answers are instantaneous.
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp

Dave

Dave, the birth I can get a PDF but not the marriage record I was after for another family member.

I'm hoping someone on here can confirm or has a way for me to confirm who John the builder's parents are.

cheers
Leisa

You do not need a pdf to discover the mother maiden name.
Dave

Hi Leisa,

Elizabeth the eldest child as you are aware is in our database as are all the other children.

Civil registration started Sep qtr of 1837 so births prior to that would not be registered and you have to rely on Baptisms etc.


Number seven child

HARROP, CHARLES DRAKE
GRO Reference: 1840 S Quarter in SHEFFIELD Volume 22 Page 579

Mothers maiden name as you can see is Drake. No charge for looking at the index only if you want the certificate or happy with the pdf file.

John Harrop & Sarah Smith Drake were married May 24th 1828 at Sheffield Parish Church and are in our database. It is a complete transcription of the register.

The GRO Volume number for Sheffield was 22 prior to about 1853 when it changed to 9c. Later still it became 2d.

All marriages prior to 1848 were supposed to take place at Sheffield Parish church or one of its chapelries. Not many churches until 1848 when a massive building took place with more parishes being added.

As you can see Sheffield Parish Church held most of the events (BMD's) for quite some years and as the population of Sheffield grew so did the number of churches.

Hope this helps to settle your marriage issue.

Elaine in Ottawa.

Holy Trinity Wicker. Baptisms 1847, Marriages 1848,Burials 1859 (9 only)

PS Should have added that the 1841 census clears up the issue.

G'day Elaine

the issue of John the builder's parents is yet to be resolved. Wife sorted now thank you.

Baptisms tell me names but not occupation and there are lot of James and Betty Harrops out there so I'm wanting to isolate the correct John Harrop.

cheers

Leisa,

According to the 1851 census John Harrop, joiner and builder, was born in SHEFFIELD around 1796 and had a sister Sarah born around 1803, also in Sheffield.
The John Harrop baptised 1796 in Saddleworth satisfies neither of these two criteria.
Dave

G'day Dave

I read Sarah on the census as visitor.
I've got a sister Elizabeth 1803 and I could not find her on the parish registers on this site using wild cards.

I was advised early on that the birth place on census was not always reliable. I had his birth place recorded as Sheffield in lieu of finding anything else.

Just wish I could find a Sheffield baptism for him to confirm that and his parents. I don't want to wipe out all my research from his "parents" back until I can confirm his parents.

cheers
Leisa

Leisa
The John Harrop bap 1796 in Dobcross/Saddleworth is definitely not yours. He married Sarah Radcliffe in Saddleworth in 1820 and they had daughters Mary (1824), Sarah (1827) and Eliza (1833) all baptised in DOBCROSS.
The family, all five of them, are on the 1851 census on Regent Street, Oldham (Above Town), which is a couple of miles west of Dobcross. All 5 are said to have been born SADDLEWORTH and the birth years of the 3 daughters all cross check with the above baptisms. John is 55 so born 1796.
Dave

Edit. The 1851 for John Harrop Builder definitely says Sarah Harrop age 48 is his SISTER (above daughter crossed out)

thank you for confirming I have the incorrect parents and subsequent ancestors Dave.

I've been busy deleting all those people and still no wiser as who is John the builder's parents. I hope it's not a dead end and I can find them.

cheers

Leisa, this looks promising, and something you could work on.
In March 1789 George Harrop married Sarah Richmond in Doncaster St George. They had 11 children
George bap Apr 1791 St George
Catherine born March 1792 bap High Melton (Doncaster)
Mary born 11 Jan 1794 bap High Melton
JOHN BAP 1796 High Melton
Elizabeth born Aug 1798 St George
Kitty born Jan 1801 bap St George
SARAH BORN MARCH 1803 bap St George
Emma born April bap 1805 St George
Ann born Aug 1807 bap St George
Harriet born Jan 1810 bap St George
Charlotte bap Feb 1814 St George
The baptism records for George, Ann, Harriet and Charlotte give the father occupation as JOINER
The record for Kitty says father is Labourer.
The others show no occupation for father.

At least it has a John (b1796) and Sarah (b1803) as brother and sister and the fact their father is a joiner is a bonus.
Dave

Thats very promising given I had not found any parents for him before I added the Tamewater twosome.

It's logical that his father was a joiner. John the builder's son was a joiner too.

Thank you for that information. I am still deleting hundreds of people from my tree but not the documents in case they marry up later with the Saddleworth lot of Harrops.

cheers

Leisa
It is definitely correct.
From our Parish Registers over to the left
HARROP, Emma (Spinster, age 45, ~, residing at Sheffield).
Married John MAW, on October 30, 1851, by Edwd S Murphy (Licence) at
Sheffield Parish Church, Church Street,Sheffield. Father's name is George Harrop (Builder).
Married in the presence of John Harrop,Ann Harrop,Eliza Harrop,William Reed,Mrs~.
Notes: ~.
Page No: 236 Reg No: 472

MAW, John (Widower, age 50, Wine merchant, residing at Doncaster).
Married Emma HARROP, on October 30, 1851, by Edwd S Murphy (Licence) at
Sheffield Parish Church, Church Street,Sheffield. Father's name is Richard Maw (Draper).
Married in the presence of John Harrop,Ann Harrop,Eliza Harrop,William Reed,Mrs~.
Notes: ~.
Page No: 236 Reg No: 472
Also, you may not be aware of this:
General Cemetery Sheffield
Gr No. Death Burial Forenames Surname Age
L 62 2.5.1855 4.5.1855 John Harrop 59 Architect & Builder
L 62 11.12.1855 12.12.1855 John Harrop Wilkinson 5 Mths Infant son of Thomas Maw Wilkinson

Dave

G'day Dave

I did have John's burial details thanks. I did not know there was another person in the grave though. Thank you for confirming Maw married Emma. Much appreciated.

I've learned from Burngreave and some other cemeteries I visited it was not uncommon to put a few others in the plot. I think it's 7 was the most I saw on 1 head stone and so much so I could not fit the lot in frame. They are Silvesters