Hi there.

My Great Grandfather, James Walter COOPER (1883–1953) spent his childhood in an Orphanage in Brampton, Chesterfield. This would have been around 1901, when his mother passed away. (He was born in Eckington.)

I am wondering if this might be the Children's home in Ashgate Road, Brampton. or if anyone knows or any other similar establishments that it could be?

I am also wondering if anyone knows where I might be able to see any records that would show his admittance etc. (I believe his brother Guy Cooper also went there too.)

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks. Nikie

Hi

Found information on this web site - The Workhouse in Chesterfield, Derbyshire (workhouses.org.uk)

I would copy and paste but it won’t let me. It looks like the building was an Industrial School attached to the workhouse. This wasn’t unusual and was seen as a way of training orphans in a trade so as to be able to support themselves when the time came rather than to be a burden on the state. There is a map of the site from 1921 where it is labelled ‘Chesterfield Union Children’s Home’. It was taken over by Derbyshire County Council and continued to operate as a children’s home until 1936. The building no longer exists.

Carol

Thanks Carole.

That's great. I think I may have seen the same website:

https://www.workhouses.org.uk/Chesterfield/#Homes

Really interesting to hear the school was attached to the workhouse.

Much appreciated

Nikie

Hi (again)

Sorry meant to mention, if you find out if Chesterfield maintain their own archives (phone the Council) then any records which still exist may be held there. If not, check with the National Archives or someone at the Council should know where the archives are held it it's not in Chesterfield.

Carol

Wonderful. Thanks Carole. I'll get onto the Council and see where that leads. Cheers

Just thought and done the obvious and searched on Google for Chesterfield Archives. So, do that search and it tells you exactly where the relevant archives are held. Some are held by Chesterfield Library Service and other records are held at Derbyshire Record Office. In the first instance you need to phone the library.

I can't believe I forgot the obvious - sorry!!

"James Walter COOPER (1883–1953)"
He would have been about 18 in 1901. Wouldn't they have been fending or themselves at this age?

My comment is probably a distraction from the focus of your inquiry.

I have located Guy Cooper at Ancestry
Name Lucy P Cooper
Birth
abt 1886 Pilsley, Derbyshire, England
Residence Woodhouse, Handsworth, Yorkshire, England 1901

Male age 15. A boarder in the Pye household. The forename looks like Guy to me.

So you are probably look at the 1890s?

Hi Terry


Ohhhhhhh... I think you found them!

Firstly, I got the date wrong for the orphanage... should have put 1891 (which is when his mother, who was already a widow died.)

But I struggled for ages to find him in the 1901 census and your suggestion absolutely fits

1. Although it reads as Joseph W P Cooper - This is James Walter Cooper, as all info fits
2. Plus... his brother Guy tallies with age, birth location
3. AND... James Booth (also a boarder) is actually his uncle on mums side
4. AND... drum roll please... they are at Cairn Cottages, Market Street, Woodhouse, Handsworth, Sheffield... which is his address when he marries several years later!!!

You are a Star. Thank you so much. :star:

Nikki
"Firstly, I got the date wrong for the orphanage... should have put 1891 (which is when his mother, who was already a widow died.)"

Are you sure she was already a widow when she died? Her husband John was with her in the 1891 census and she died giving birth to a son called Lot about 6 months later. I cannot find a death for her husband in that six months!
The best fit I can find for her husbands death is 1906 Chesterfield.
Dave

Sorry, no edit function
Should have added that the 1906 death for John Cooper shows he was buried at BRAMPTON
Dave

Hi Dave

Thanks for this info.

I did have a question-mark over the John's death date. My great Aunt remembers the boys going into the orphanage quickly after their mother died, so I was looking for something that fitted their father having passed away too, but it looks like he simply couldn't cope with them all (most went to live with other family members.)

But you are absolutely right. The 1906 option sounds much more likely... I'll order the certificate and see if I can get more info to confirm it.

Great shout on the son 'Lot' being born... (never come across that as a name before!) This sibling had not featured in my research yet. Much appreciated for the heads up on him. Looks like the little one didn't last long as there's a death entry for Dec 1892.

Thanks

Lot is an Old Testament name
No working man could cope in that situation. He had to go out to work for his living every day so someone else had to look after the children. In the immediate aftermath the easiest and normal thing to do would be put them into the Workhouse system. This provided time to make more permanent arrangements.A couple of options
1 find a new wife who would be willing to look after all those children. Not easy at his age
2. Farm them out to relatives, either temp or permanent
But in such circumstances it was completely normal to put the children into the Workhouse system as a first resort.
May I suggest you buy the death cert for Lot. Where he died and who registered the death will tell you a lot about the situation just a year after Elizas death.
Dave

“I did have a question-mark over the John's death date.”

There are a good number of family trees at Ancestry for this family. I think some are muddled, some have John Cooper & Eliza Booth & others with Agnes "Cooper".
There is a selection of death dates.
8 Feb 1897 Barnsley,
10 Feb 1897 Barnsley,
10 Feb 1897 Wakefield,
8 Feb 1897 Pilsley, Derbyshire,

There is one that has Jan 1906 Chesterfield.

Take them all with a grain of salt and do your own research.

Same claim the record in this collection at Ancestry is him: West Yorkshire, England, County Coroner Notebooks, 1852-1909
Inquest at the Wellington Inn Barnsley 10 February 1897 (a Wednesday).
Died 8 February 1897 (assumed by me, as he died he died on the Monday).
Had been living at Savages Lodging House, 60 Sheffield Road, Barnsley, for a few days. Age 60. Old bullet wound on neck. Pay notes from Grimethorpe Colliery. Had been in the army but no pension.
No mention of family.

Could be this record at GRO:
COOPER, JOHN 60
GRO Reference: 1897 M Quarter in BARNSLEY UNION Volume 09C Page 122

Nice one Terry.
In 1901 census there is a John Cooper in Brampton who was a Besom Maker. He seems to be the one who died there in 1906. Therefore he is probably not the one you are looking for.
Dave

This group is awesome. Thank you all so much for your willingness to help me.

Terry and Dave thanks for the suggestions.

John Cooper was married several times:

First to Martha Unwin in 1863 she passed in 1870. (2 children)
There's a possible marriage in 1871 to Elizabeth Nadin who passes in May 1872
And then to my Gr Grandmother Eliza Booth in Nov 1872 (10 children)

John is indeed in the 1891 census, living in Pilsley at the time aged, so the suggestion of the John Cooper who passed on the 8th Feb 1897 Pilsley, Derbyshire sound great, but I can not locate any info on this to get a death cert.

Off to do more research, thanks all.

Nikie
Take a look at this newspaper article
PILSLEY DRUNKARD STARVING HIS * CHILDREN. John Cooper, 55, collier, was summoned by d Enabling Cooper, Inspector for the N.S.P.C.C., of Derby, for wilfully neglecting seven children
18 June 1892 - Derbyshire Times - Chesterfield, Derbyshire, England

It is very long and very detailed and it is your John Cooper The children are named and the net result is that the children are taken away to the Workhouse by the authorities.
It is also worth noting that the John Cooper that Terry identified as dying in 1897 in Barnsley also generated a newspaper Item which describes how he was of no fixed abode, got very drunk and died after falling down stairs in the lodging house.
see Barnsley Chronicle 13 February 1897.

Dave

Oh my goodness Dave

This is both fascinating and heart-breaking all at the same time!

I tried searching the newspapers previously and completely missed this!!

Wow. Well, that would explain a lot.

Really appreciated. Nikie

Dave T has given us a date.

FamilySearch has:
England, Derbyshire, Chesterfield, Workhouse (later Scarsdale hospital), poor law records, 1838-1905
These are not indexed, but you canbrowse.
I am looking at:
Admission and discharge register, D2741/H/1/16, June 1888-September 1892
Image 431 has an admission of Lily Cooper (one of the children I recall):
Discharged
Thursday 2 June 1892. Last meal before discharge: D. How discharged: Sent to the schools; parish from which admitted: Pilsley.

Image 427 (a discharge page)
Has 4 Cooper names admitted 26 May 1892:
Henry George, Wm James, Guy, Mary. Sent to the schools; parish from which admitted: Pilsley.

Image 426 has their admissions:
Henry George, James Wm, Guy, Lily, Mary, Thomas. Wesleyan. Born 1882, 1884, 1886, 1889, 1890. Admitted from Pilsley. Date of order of admission: 26/6/92

This is a link for image 426:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DRX9-2Y3?i=425&cat=1857695
FamilySearch is free but you need to sign in.

If you can get access to Ancestry (your library?) you can see the witness statements for the coroner's inquiry.

Hi Terry.

This information is wonderful. I followed your link and found them all. Including a stint from the father too! (Apparently discharged as arrested by police!!!)

Added 'Family Search' to my new favourites to search in. :blush:

I'm unsure how to access the witness statements for the coroner's inquiry via Ancestry (which I do have an account for) I don't find their search function easy to navigate... any suggestions where to look?

You've been a wonderful help. Nikie

It looks like he did a decent spell in gaol in 1894

-John Cooper was charged with being drunk Brook-street, on .Monday nigh*.—Policeconstable stated tho facts, and the offence was admitted Defendant
04 May 1894 - Derbyshire Advertiser and Journal - Derby, Derbyshire, England

John Cooper was obarged by polioe-oonatable Kilmartiu with being drunk and disorderl
12 January 1894 - Derbyshire Advertiser and Journal - Derby, Derbyshire, England

And this is probably him in Wakefield

John Cooper. miner. Newmillerdent (P.C. °rutin Bs. fah, or 7 days• David and John Hamilton, miners. 'Bretton Wert (P.C. To:worth), 9a
01 June 1895 - Wakefield Free Press - Wakefield, Yorkshire, England

John Cooper. whose is not lied, wee charged with • like offence in the Market Place on Saturday night, when Polie-conotable Moss found
07 September 1895 - Wakefield and West Riding Herald - Wakefield, Yorkshire, England

And possibly York

a tramping labourer named John Cooper was charged with being drunk and disorderly ou tbe 15th inst. at West Barton, and also with assaulting Ann Pickard on the same date and
17 August 1895 - York Herald - York, Yorkshire, England

And Hull
At the Holl Sessions yesterday John Cooper, a middle-aged labourer, was charged by P.C. Stephenson (60) with being druuk and disorderly at Newport. The officer ejected
21 August 1895 - York Herald - York, Yorkshire, England
Dave

Wonderful.

Thanks Dave. I'll take a looks at these. Really appreciated Nikie

"I'm unsure how to access the witness statements for the coroner's inquiry via Ancestry"
Search
Name: John Cooper
Death: 1897
Location: Yorkshire, England, United Kingdom
Tick the exact box for each selection.

First up for me is:

West Yorkshire, England, County Coroner Notebooks, 1852-1909
Death, burial, cemetery & obituaries

Record information.
Name John Cooper
Birth abt 1837
Death 10 Feb 1897

Select view.

Wonderful. Got it. Thanks Terry. :smiley: