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This couple married in 1898 in Sheffield and I was hoping to find a certificate to clarify their parents names.
All their children were baptised in St Vincent de Paul's Church, however I can't find a marriage for them.
Can anyone else find it???
Yes I found it.
This is how.
Use FreeBMD. and look for Julia Berry easier than looking for Brown.
Cover the time period when you think the marriage happened.
One pops up in Sheffield.June qtr 1898. Sheffield 9c 1022.
Click on the 1022 and a Robert Brown is there.
And thats my tip for the day.
Take Care Elaine.
Jenny, it looks like the only way you are going to see the marriage certificate is if you buy it from the GRO. Cost is £11.
Jenny, are you aware that the 1921 Census states that Julia Brown (nee Berry)was born in Bohola Co. Mayo Ireland? This positively identifies her in the 1891 Census in Ormesby, Middlesbrough with her 3 older brothers and an older sister Ann, all born Co Mayo.
Ann went on to marry Francis King in 1896 and they brought up Martin Berry (nephew), who was the llegitimate son (b 1894, Middlesbbrough) of your Julia.
Note that the 1911 census in Middlesbrough has Ann and Francis King with all 3 of Anns older unmarried brothers and all 5 of them were born Lougharn Co Mayo. That is about 1 km from Bohola.
Sorry it does not help you to identify parents because Anns marriage cert is not available on line either, and the 3 older brothers never married.
You will have to buy a certificate.
what year was Julia born, I am trying to find her baptism.
Had a busy day so sorry for the late reply. Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to reply. I was hoping someone might find the certificate online but looks as though I'll have to send for it.
Dave thanks for the info re 1921 census. I do subscribe to FMP but am against having to pay to see this census. I'll check out the other information you have given.
John, in terms of identifying parents it would work if you find the baptism of any of the 5 Berry siblings in Bohola /Loaugharn, Co Mayo.
They are William 1853, James 1855, Edward 1861, Ann 1870 and Julia 1873. All years are approx , ie from Censuses.
I have found only one Robert Henry(Henny??)Brown born 1878 March qtr/Middlesbrough mmn: GROOM (Ref:GRO+BMD).
There is a marriage: 1877 Sept.qtr.Middlesbrough between
MARGARET GROOM and JOHN BROWN (Ref:BMD)
Dave, i am unable to work out what is whatbut try this link https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0122
the birth reg sounds good as I have found him named on his son's marriage cert as Robert Henry and as Robert H on his burial record. Thanks also for the marriage, I'll look at that shortly.
I was unaware of this link https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0122
so thank you.
On the 1921 Census he is also Robert H age 48
Thanks for the information Dave. I'm not sure now if the birth Wendy found is correct as on all the censuses and death record his age puts his birth to 1873. I still can't find a birth for him in that time period though!
I did find that on the 1911 census there was a boarder James Brown aged 36, an upholsterer from Middlesborough so it might be Robert's brother. With such a common name I haven't been able to track them down prior to 1901.
thanks for all your help it's much appreciated
First of all thank you John for the fascinating Baptism and marriage records from Bohola, Co. Mayo.
In the time period of the records (1857 t0 1881) we would expect to find Julia, Anne and Edward Berry baptisms. The 2 older brothers we see later in Middlesbrough (William 1853 and James 1855) would pre-date this church. However the parentage of William can be determined when all the Berry baptisms are put together. Note that, below, the father surname is always Berry and the residence is always Lough (which ties in with the 1911 census for Anne King nee Berry)
Date Child Name Parents
1858 4 Apr Austin Austin & Mary Comber
1859 23 Jan John William & Margaret O'Hara
1859 30 Oct Edward Austin & Mary Comber
1861 18 Apr William William & Margaret O'Hara
1865 Jun Austin William & Margaret O'Hara
1870 30 Oct Anne William & Margaret O'Hara
1872 3 Mar Judy Austin & Mary Comber
1873 13 Apr John William & Margaret O'Hara
There are lots of other Berrys showing up as godparents, ie Mary, Catharine, John, James and Patrick, and a Martin Berry marries in Nov 1869. These are all presumably siblings to the Austin and William who were the only Berrys baptising at this church in this period.
So it looks like the William (1853) must have belonged to Austin (because William and Margaret had a William in 1861).
Edward, and Judy (presumably Julia) belonged to Austin And Mar Comber.
Jenny, you need the Brown-Berry marriage anyway for id of Robert's father. No doubt it will confirm Julia's father as Austin.
Thanks again John.
Wow thanks for all that information Dave. It will certainly keep me busy....
I didn't realise there were any Irish records online so thanks once again John. I'm sure that site will get a lot of hits now.
The information Dave has supplied can also be found on Ancestry on the DRINKWATER family tree.
It shows: Austin Berry(1808) dying in Australia in 1878 and shows the first three children (Mary,William & Austin also born Australia, the rest (Edward,William,Cathy,Ann,Patt(female),Julia) all born in Ireland.
Mary Comber (1843 Ireland- D:??).
I found a birth reg.for a Julia Berry in 1872 Swineford (nr. Bohola/Leitrim) Ireland and a baptism 3rd March 1872. ref: Ancestry.
The death/burial details for JULIA & ROBERT H.BROWN can be found on S.I. website over to your left.
Thanks so much Wendy.
Take a look at irishgenealogy.ie. Go to Civil Records and search for deaths in the registration district Swinford between 1864 and 1920. You will find Austin died there in 1878, when Julia was only 6.
You will also find the deaths of William and Margaret and Mary.
Please note that the names and dates of death are accurate but the ages are notoriously imprecise because they frequently did not know the age accurately, so simply put down an approx decade for their age. For the ages read "sometime in the region of".
Sorry, should have said look for Surname BERRY deaths in Swinford between 1864 and 1925.
Thanks again Dave for all your help.
Just received the marriage certificate for Robert and Julia in 1898. They were married in the Register Office hence the cert not being on line. Robert's father is named as Samuel (a general labourer). Witnesses James Brown (possible brother as he was living with Robert and Julia in 1901 Sheffield) and Annie Elizabeth Collins.
Robert's age was 23 which tallies with his age on 1901 census.
I've looked for Robert with a father Samuel on earlier censuses but haven't had any luck. Hoping someone will come to my rescue once again.
Where was Robert Henry living when he got married? Presume he was born in Sheffield.
Here are my thoughts but could be totally wrong:-
Robert Henry was born illegitimate but named a family member to prove he was legit usually grandfather.
Could Samuel have died they do not have to put deceased on the certificate. Not found a burial yet that ties in.
If above is correct then Robert's mother could have remarried there is a John and Hannah Brown on the an earlier census with a Samuel that could fit.
Robert was born in Middlesborough and was living at 15 Langsett Road when he married.
His father was still alive because Julia's father was Austin Berry (deceased).
I was hoping Robert's father had an unusual name so that he would be easier to find....