Both Hannah and her sister Mary were both sent from Bradfield to work in Glossop in the 1820`S and both were returned to Bradfield, having become pregnant by local men. I have found the appropriate records in Bradfield Archives to show how much financial support for their children, Joseph and Elizabeth respectively. Does anybody know the names of their parents, or if they had siblings?

Catherine,

Helliwell is certainly a very common name in Bradfield, Have you looked at out baptisms and Marriage entries for St Nicholas.

Elaine in Ottawa.

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Hi Elaine, I think that Hannah left her son joseph with her parents, John and Charlotte Hellowell, while she followed the man she eventually married, Thomas Tutsbury/Didsbury, around. His occupation on the 1841 census is retired stage coach driver. There is a Joseph Helliwell of the right age, livingg with John and Charlotte on the 1841 and 1851, where he is described as their grandson. On the Baptism record on this site only Johns name is given on both Hannahs` and MaryS` Baptism record. There is a marriage record for a Charlotte Winks and John Helliwell in Tickhill on 3rd August 1804. There is also a baptism for Ann, 1809 and George in 1807, where just the fathers name, John is given and all four baptism`s take place at St Nicholas, Bradfield.

Catherine, I am confused.
The b@stardy bonds for the two are on Bradfield Archives. Mary's child was born November 1825 and HANNAHS IN December 1825. If I understand the system correctly, in order for there to be a b@stardy bond they must both have been at least 21 at that stage, so born 1804 at the latest.
Dave

Cathie
Have you seen the Bradfield Archives records, including 2 B@stardy Bonds, for 2 persons named Sarah Helliwell, one in 1825 and one in 1822. Could one of those be a sister to your 2?
The 1825 one also went to work in Derbyshire before getting pregnant at 21 to a Stannington cutler.
Dave

Hi Catherine,

Is this the Joseph you found in our database?



Helliwell, Joseph (of Hill Top, born ~).
Baptised January 8, 1826, by J Fletcher at St Nicholas, Bradfield.
Parents name(s) are Hannah & ~ (Spinster).

The Didsbury surname comes up in my ex brother-in laws line if you are interested.

Thomas Didsbury Helliwell aged 10 on the 1881 census. He is a son of Joseph.

Elaine in Ottawa.

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Cathie
According to FMP the marriage of John Helliwell to Charlotte Winks was 1801, (not 1804 as you said).
A search of our baptisms for surname H*ll*w*ll and address Cliff* produces the following 3 answers
Helliwell, Ann (of Cliffe, born ~).
Baptised November 27, 1809, by ~ at St Nicholas, Bradfield.
Parents name(s) are ~ & John (~).

Helliwell, Hannah (of Cliffe, born ~).
Baptised March 4, 1804, by ~ at St Nicholas, Bradfield.
Parents name(s) are ~ & John (~).

Helliwell, Mary (of Cliffe, born ~).
Baptised December 29, 1805, by ~ at St Nicholas, Bradfield.
Parents name(s) are ~ & John (~).

I suggest that these 3 are probably sisters and daughters of Charlotte (nee Winks) and John based on what you already found about Joseph being grandson of John and Charlotte.
It may be worth looking on FMP at the two possible Bradfield marriages for Ann in 1831 (Charles Ronksley) and 1834 (George Stanley) to see if witnesses reveal any connection.
Dave

Hi Elaine and Dave T, Thanks a lot for the info. I have Hannah, born 1804, Mary, born 1805 and Ann born 1809. The Thomas Didsbury I have in my tree was born in Rayton, which is near Worksop in Nottinghamshire about 1800 to 1802. He was a widower when he married Hannah in Stockport, in 1839, off the top of my head. As he drove stage coaches for a living, possibly between Manchester and Sheffield, his first marriage could be between those two points. I had found the marriage of Ann to George Stanley in 1834 and found it interesting that her daughter Lucy was working in Glossop at the same time that Hannah and Thomas were running their tearoom. The building still stands and is an now an ice cream parlour

Hi again Elaine, Just seen your comment about Thomas Didsbury Helliwell on the 1881 census and realised I have not only found him, but his siblings and their children as far as the 1911 cenus.

If you would like to contact off the Forum as this could take some sorting out as I am having to do the research now as I hadn't followed it through before for obvious reasons.

Does that look like the Joseph born to Hannah that I mentioned?

Elaine in Ottawa.

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Hi Catherine Jane et al,
There may be some half siblings from Mary Helliwell's marriage to (I think..??) George Kirk on June 10th 1829 in Sheffield (ref:this website)the witness I think was Mary's brother,George Helliwell.
In 1841 George Kirk (35)from Sheffield and Mary Kirk(35)from Bradfield are living at Garden Street,Sheffield with them are:
Elizabeth age 15 (1825/6),(love child) and Ann age 10.
all daughters from Bradfield. Plus five members of the Ibbotson family are with them.

In 1851 residence 20 Garden Street, Hollis Croft
George age 44, Mary age 44, No Elizabeth..??, Ann age 20 and Ellen age 4

1861:Res:Baltic Street Works, Attercliffe.
George age 55, Mary age66, No Ann, Ellen age 13.

In 1862 Ellen Kirk dies age 15.
In 1866 George Kirk dies age 61
In 1871 Mary Kirk is residing at Sheffield North, she is a widow age 65 from Hill Top Yks. and is a seamstress.
In 1881 Mary still residing Sheffield age 76
Mary dies in 1887. Mary and George Kirk buried in same grave ref: this website).
As for Elizabeth Helliwell there was a marriage in 1845 to a John Bolton (Ref this website)but I have no idea if this is your Elizabeth.
HAPPY HUNTING:sleuth_or_spy:

Hi Catherine,

Just to muddy the waters a little with the Hannah Line as she falls in place with my brother in laws line.

Helliwell, Hannah (of Gate, born ~).
Baptised August 16, 1801, by ~ at St Nicholas, Bradfield.
Parents name(s) are ~ & Joseph (~).


Helliwell, Hannah (of Cliffe, born ~).
Baptised March 4, 1804, by ~ at St Nicholas, Bradfield.
Parents name(s) are ~ & John (~).

I have been unable to find (FMP) Hannah once she marries.

I was trying to zero in on her age.

I could be totally out on left field but I have found when researching an illegitimate child they are quite often named after the mothers parents.

So you can see from the baptisms I would go for the 1801 Hannah. The baby was called Joseph.

Elaine in Ottawa.

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Hi Elaine,
Like you I was unable to find Hannah in 1841 & 1851
but she is on the 1861 census living in Hayfield, Dbys.
Thomas Dudsbry(Dudsbury) age 59 birthplace Rayton Notts.
Retired stagecoach man and refreshment room keeper
Hannah Dudsbry age 57 birthplace Stannington (wife)

Thomas Dudsbury died 25th Nov/1866 age 61 at Hayfield

Hannah Dudsbury died 7th March/1875 at Hayfield age 64/65

HAPPY HUNTING:sleuth_or_spy:

In 1841 she is (probably) Ann Tudsbury in Manchester and in 1851 she is Hannah Tuderberry in Hayfield Derbyshire
Dave

Think we are finally getting somewhere.

1851 census.*Norfolk Street*, Glossop, Hayfield, Derbyshire, England


Thomas Tuderberry Head
Married Male 46 1805 Coach man Retford, Nottinghamshire, England
Hannah Tuderberry Wife
Married Female 45 1806 - Stannington, Yorkshire, England
George Watts Lodger
Unmarried Male 22 1829 Joiner Chesterfield, Derbyshire, England
John Lomas Lodger
Unmarried Male 21 1830 Carter at cotton mill Chinley,
Derbyshire, England

When I look at the actual census I think the Name could be TUDESBERRY.

Last Night I found the following.

1871 census Hannah DIDSBURY 34 *Norfolk St,* Glossop
She was a widow aged 66 I believe her occupation is Sweet Maker Shop. born Stanington Yorks. That would give her a birth year of 1804/1805. That would tie in with her father being the John and not the Joseph as I suggested.

Elaine in Ottawa.

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Hi All, I have possibly found Hannah and Thomas in Glossop on the 1841 census as Tudebury and have found them on the 1861 census in Glossop. If Hannah was baptised in 1804, then she would have been 22 in 1826, when Joseph was born and there is a baptism for Joseph Helliwell of Cliff Top, on Jan 8th at St Nicholas, Bradfield. The mothers` name is Hannah and there is also a marriage record for Joseph Helewell in 1864 at Christ Church Stannington, where he gives his birth year as 1826 and his father as Thomas Didsbury. Josephs son Thomas Didsbury Helliwell was born about 1872 and married Mary Jane Bancroft at the afore mentioned church in 1898.

Great......

So we have Hannah sorted. I now have my brother in laws line in their rightful order.

Elaine in Ottawa.

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