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Trade Directories 1860s

Does anyone please have them for Sheffield between 1861 and 1870?
Dave

Re: Trade Directories 1860s

I have White's 1862 directory which I downloaded from the Leicester Univerity site here http://specialcollections.le.ac.uk/digital/collection/p16445coll4

Hugh

Re: Trade Directories 1860s

Hugh, thank you. Would you mind please telling me if there is an entry for Charles ibbotson as either a spring knife cutler or a knife manufacturer
Dave

Re: Trade Directories 1860s

Although there are many Ibbotsons, as you'd expect, I only found two called Charles, both farmers outside Sheffield.

Do you have access to Tweedale's Directory of Sheffield cutlery manufacturers? he lists Charles Ibbotson c1836-1927, born in Hathersage.

Hugh

Re: Trade Directories 1860s

Hugh. That is him, and I have many details from censuses, marriage and a detailed interview in 1903.
What I am trying to find out is when and how he "graduated" from being a humble and subservient spring knife cutler in 1861 to being a knife manufacturer employing over 30 people in 1871. Also where was his factory?
Dave

Re: Trade Directories 1860s

Tweedale says he and Thomas Brooks were at the Melbourne Works, Suffolk St, implyimg that that was before they parted ways in 1869. It looks as though Ibbotson took the name Melbourne Works to Cambridge St by 1876.

Hugh

Re: Trade Directories 1860s

Hugh, brilliant, thank you. All extra details. I have now found that he was within Albion Works,Cambridge Street in 1891 when there was a fatality. It looks like I can now fill in most of the gaps. I shall follow up on Thomas Brooks
Dave

Re: Trade Directories 1860s

Hi Hugh,

May I trouble you to ask if Tweedales mentions any of the below names?

SAYNOR - Samuel, Jeremiah and John
WRAGG / RAGG - Samuel and Samuel Christopher
WARDLE - Joseph
BELL - John and Jonathan
SETTLE - any, in particular Samuel
WARBURTON - Samuel
PECKETT - William.
WRIGHT - Matthew.

Also if the directory has any info about any silver platers called HOWARD.

Thank you,

Heths

Re: Trade Directories 1860s

Hi Heather

Samuel Christopher is my 3 x Ggrandfather is he related to you?

I know that at one time he was involved with two women his first wife Elizabeth and then Ann.

Angela

Re: Trade Directories 1860s

Hi Angela,

Yes, Samuel Christopher Wragg was my 3x gt-grandfather.
I’m descended from his daughter Mary Jane (1851) - her mum was Ann Downes, née Bridges.

Heths

Re: Trade Directories 1860s

Hi Heather

I'm descended from Samuel Christopher and Elizabeth through his son Samuel and his wife Isabella Parkin, I am in Devon at present but willlook at my tree when I get home.

Angela

Re: Trade Directories 1860s

Heather,

Sorry I missed your question. There are possible entries for several of these firms. I shall summarise. If any are of interest I can scan them and email them to you...


SAYNOR - Samuel, Jeremiah and John
Tweedale lists two businesses which involved both a Samuel and a John SAYNOR. I can't see a mention of a Jeremiah
Tweedale doesn't say these are the same family or linked businesses but it seems likely to me.

(1) "Saynor, Cooke and Ridal"
Samuel SAYNOR died 1805, workshop in Bank St
His son Samuel worked in Edward St, died 1839 aged 53
This Samuel's son John married Sarah Ann ARMSTRONG in 1847 but died in 1849 agd 39.
Tweedale has much detail about the evolution of the firm up to WW2
(2) "Samuel & John Saynor/Thomas Saynor"
Existed i738
Samuel and John sons of Joseph (husbandman), apprenticed to cutlers
1790 S&J SAYNOR in Bank St. Factors and manufacturers - chief business in London
Samuel died 1805. His son Samuel moved to Edward St
John's son Thomas 1788-1856 specialised in 'pen machines' [I don't know what they are]

Hugh

Re: Trade Directories 1860s

WRAGG / RAGG - Samuel and Samuel Christopher

Entry for Samuel C Wragg 1807-1865, specialist in spring knives, especially for US market
(4 paragraphs and a photo of a knife)

WARDLE - Joseph

Not found

Hugh

Re: Trade Directories 1860s

BELL - John and Jonathan

1 paragraph
Brothers, born 1807 and 1813, sons of James (a gardener) and Sarah

SETTLE - any, in particular Samuel

Two entries (1 paragraph each) May be related

(1) John & Thomas Settle.
Origins obscure
Norfolk St. Registered marks 1815
John died 1831 aged 65
Thomas died 1850 aged 74
(2)
Thomas Settle & Co
No family details. Marks registered 1781
Master Cutler 1785

Hugh

Re: Trade Directories 1860s

WARBURTON - Samuel

Histories of various Warburtons "difficult to unravel". He lists short items of disparate information, including...
Samuel listed as manufacturer in Hollis Croft 1774-1797
Samuel in Bridgehouses between same years pen knives/razors

PECKETT - William.

The only entry is for Thomas PECKETT who worked for Joseph Rogers & Sons for 42 years. Did 1903 aged 79.

WRIGHT - Matthew

Several WRIGHT businesses but I can't see the name Matthew

Hugh

Re: Trade Directories 1860s

It's amazing what you can learn from reading this forum.

I just quickly looked in old papers for adverts and articles about pen machines.

I believe that people used quill pens right up into the early 1800s. You had to cut the nib yourself from the quill end of the feather, using a penknife (from Sheffield ideally, which were the best of course).

But that required a little bit of skill. I think that the pen machine would shape the end of a quill pen for you, de-skilling the process. This is mentioned in an advert for Coleman’s pen machine (21 shillings) which “by pressure with the thumb” could “cut, slit, and nib a Pen to perfection in a moment” (Morning Post - Friday 15 May 1829).

So you’d shove your goose feather into the pen machine and it would make a nib for you without you having to handcraft it with your penknife.

I saw an article where a pen machine, value 20 shillings, was mentioned – so they were pretty pricey because a quid (or a guinea for Coleman’s machine) was a lot of money at 1820’s prices.

Starting from the late 1820s (Wikipedia) manufacturers in Birmingham started banging out steel nibs or other types of dip pens which were ready made. That’s the type of pen incidentally which Penne pasta is named after. The type of scratchy cheap nib that you dip in an inkwell frequently. They were everywhere in Victorian times and the pen machine would have died away as everyone moved to cheap disposable nibs from Birmingham.

Cheers,

Andrew P.

Re: Trade Directories 1860s

Thanks for that Andrew.

So the equivalent of the sort of pencil sharpener that was fixed to a desk at school or in a library.

Hugh

Re: Trade Directories 1860s

Hi Hugh,

Thank you so much for taking the time to look all this up for me.
Yes, please can you email me scans of the info which you found.
Thank you again.

Andrew - the cheap scratchy nib which you dip in inkwells...
I remember them well. I was the inky fingered child whose inkwell had fluff and soggy blotting paper lurking at the bottom which would get stuck in my nib.. :scream:

Heths

Re: Trade Directories 1860s

Heather,

Blotting paper in the nib! I'd forgotten that. It makes an impressively big smudge. We had loads of those little nibs in a stockroom at school, which fitted into purple marbled plastic holders. The teacher would distribute when she needed some quiet time and get us to practice writing with a pen.

Of course YOU didn't deliberately put blotting paper in the inkwell to flick at other kids and then look super-innocent straight after.

When using pencils (and the big pencil sharpener that Hugh mentioned) there was always that one kid obsessed with having an incredibly sharp pencil, who'd sharpen it to a point which snapped off immediately, go back and sharpen it again, snap it off again, sharpen it again... spend the whole session doing that.

Not to forget the original question, in the legal notices in the Sheffield Daily Telegraph of Saturday 09 January 1869, Charles Ibbotson and Thomas Brooks, of 11 Suffolk St. ("Ibbotson, Brooks, and Company) officially dissolved their partnership and announced that Charles Ibbotson would carry on business at that address as Charles Ibbotson and Company. (Confirming what Hugh said, they "parted ways in 1869").

Cheers,

Andrew P.