Hi I am looking for any info on Joseph Henry Marshall b1858-1864
Think either Leeds or Sheffield and christened Rotherham
Father was James William Marshall
Mother I think was Mary Ann
He married Sarah Jane Barrett B 1863 Halifax
they had 2 sons Joseph Edward Marshall b1895 Sheffield
John William Marshall b1897 Sheffield
A timeline I have is
The timeline I have is

1891 Census Buslingthorpe Leeds

1896 after Joseph Edward was born 3ct 3h West Bar Sheffield

1898 after John William was born Garden St Sheffield

1901 3ct 2h Bailey St Sheffield.

1911 13 Brook Lane Sheffield with Joseph Henry and Joseph Edward, John William was at Stannington training school (Hollow Meadow training School). some form of reform school, training as a painter and went straight into the army Yorks and Lancs. Where he had a very colourful career.

1916 Joseph had married Mable Hampson and they lived at 19ct 6h Summer St

1920 Still at Summer St Joseph died

I have also found a sister Sarah Eliza Marshall born 1890 Leeds. Still looking for her.

Sarah Jane Barrett was born 1863 Halifax and died 1910 in Union Hospital Sheffield aged 47 and was buried 23 July 1910.

It looks like a lot but nothing to tie him to his father James William Marshall and I think his mother was Mary Ann still looking for them also.

Brenda

,

To start the ball rolling......

I used FreeBMD,YorkshireBMD (Leeds),FMP and Sheffield BMD's.

Time frame 1858- 1861.

There is no Joseph Henry Marshall listed.

There are two listed in 1859 for just Joseph. The one in Ecclesall Bierlow looks promising as I thnk the first one may have died. (FreeBMD)

Question. How do you know Joseph Henry was baptised in Rotherham?


The two boys born to Joseph & Sarah with mmn of Barratt.

I could not find a marriage for this couple.

My two cents worth. LOL

Elaine.

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Hi What makes it so complicated is as follows
1891 Census born 1859
1901 Census b1858
1911 Census b1860
1912 Marriage b1863
1920 Death b1859

Marriage to Mable 1912 says
Joseph Henry age 48 so born 1864
Mable age 22 born 1890
It was said in the family that Joseph was in his 50's and Mable was 16 when they married
So it is hard to find a true date for either really.
Just been in touch with my brother and he said he thinks that he heard that Joseph came from Scotland because one of the boys joined the Highland Hussars while the other joined Yorks and Lancs.so he is checking all Scottish sites. Got all sorts of info about their army careers. Not so sure though.
We don't know if he had any siblings and like I said sometimes they christened all children together so that would be one reason for the dates being different. I just don't want to waste money getting certs when I am not sure.
This could just be a mystery that never gets solved.

Managed to get a look at the 1891 census.

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census

Buslingthorpe Place, Leeds, Yorkshire & Yorkshire (West Riding), Eng.

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Joseph H Marshall Head Married Male 32 1859 Wire Cleaner Sheffield, Yorkshire, England
Sarah J Marshall Wife Married Female 28 1863 - Halifax, Yorkshire, England
Sarah E Marshall Daughter - Female 0 1891 - Leeds, Yorkshire, England
Mary A Hayes Niece - Female 6 1885 - - London? Maybe.

Elaine.

Note.
Daughter to Joseph & Sarah.?

Births Dec 1890
Marshall Sarah Eliza Leeds 9b 497

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Brenda,
Let us start with the easy things. The marriage of Joseph to Mabel is on FMP.
Mabel is said to be 22. However, one of the witnesses is Kate Mahala White who was nee Hampson and was Mabel's older sister. She married Charles White in 1906. That is also on FMP. The GRO index identifies the two sisters and other siblings with mmn Favell and Mabel was birth registered Q4 1893, so she was actually very close to her 19th birthday at her marriage. She will have lied to avoid the problem of parental consent.
As Joseph was so much older than her he had a very good reason to lie about his age, knoking few years off.
Therefore you can say that Joseph was probably born about 1859, plus or minus 1.

Dave

Morning Brenda,

A few certificates are called for. They are a must to sort out brickwalls like this.

Births Mar 1859
MARSHALL Joseph Ecclesall 9c 254

Births Jun 1859
MARSHALL Joseph Ecclesall B 9c 215

Download a pdf file from the GRO

I believe the first one died (check FreeBMD)

Deaths Dec 1920
MARSHALL Joseph H 61 Sheffield 9c 520

Takes you back to 1859 again.

I have been back from 1881 census to 1841 and can not find him or his father.

Three suggestions.

Could James William have been in 1.the Army? 2. Moving around and not being picked up on the census.3. Father had died and mother remarried and Joseph being picked up on a census under the new fathers name.


Elaine in Ottawa.

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I wonder........

Deaths Dec 1879
Marshall James William 39 Leeds 9b 352

He would have been 19 when Joseph Henry was born. A possibility.

Elaine.

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The two births that Elaine mentioned. The birth ref 9c 264 has the mothers maiden name chambers and there is a marriage for a James Marshall to a Hannah Maria Chambers in 1858.

The birth ref 9c 215 has the mother's maiden name Biggin and there is no marriage match between a Marshall and a Biggin (unless it was pre 1837) The other possibility is that Biggin was her birth name and she had previously been married prior to giving birth to Joseph Henry Marshall.

One other question the births mention have no middle name Henry so are these the correct Joseph's.

There are no Joseph Henry Marshall born in the Sheffield area between 1858 and 1864 but spanner in the works time Joseph Henry Marshall born June quarter 1865 HUDDERSFIELD..which of course is near Leeds

Just thoughts but possibly wrong so be cautious. what do the others think?

John

Hi John/Brenda,

My reason for picking out the two birth as I did, was that they were in Sheffield where Joseph states he was born.

1891,1901,1911 census all state he was born Sheffield.

Its the years between 1859-1891 that would help sort the brickwall out.

Joseph died 1920 aged 61 making his birth year 1859.

Thinking again.
Could it have been that Sarah J had been married previousley so they (Joseph) could not legally be married. BUT they lived as man and wife from at least 1890 in Leeds where daughter Sarah E was born and registered. By 1895 they were in Sheffield where son Joseph Edward was born.MMN Barrett.

Sarah J Marshall died Sep qtr 1910 Sheffield 9c 301.Aged 47
Joseph remarried to a very much younger girl Mabel L Hampson Dec qtr 1912. Sheffield 9c 1086.

Sarah Jane Barrett June 1863.
BARRETT Sarah Jane Halifax 9a 422

Elaine in Ottawa.

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Can we look at the original message please. It says James William marshall married 1863 in Halifax but when he married he just used William (not unheard of to use just one name) so have we got the correct marriage and also when they had two children look at the years she has put is this a typing error or could the marriage be 1883?

John

John itsays he married her and she was born in 1863. It does not say when he married her.
Dave

yet another case of two people living together as man and wife, and having legitimate children, without going through an official marriage.
Dave

Hi Elaine,
In the 1891 Census In Leeds it has Mary A Hayes Niece.
Now I have been trying to find out if that means she belongs to Joseph's or Sarah Jane's siblings
So trying to find siblings for these two might show something.
I'll start looking again
As for so called living in sin I don't think anyone bothered they just believed what they were told.
Brenda