Greetings from the United States,
I am in search of any information particularly birth records on my great grandmother. Eva Gladys Carpenter was born April 23,1889 to Charles Warren Carpenter and Rosa Morgan. I believe she was born in Sheffield.

Thank you!
Carolyn

Someone on Ancestry has Eva in a tree. She lives in Baltimore.

Hi Carolyn, The only marriage I can find for Charles Warren Carpenter is to Rosa Morris 3rd Quarter 1886 in Conway, Caernarvonshire, Wales. Depending on when they emigrated they may not have registered the birth. Cannot find her birth on any records. Regards Barry

That marriage is on FMP
Rosa Morris was a widow age 45 and her maiden name was MORGAN. Her father was a Surgeon.
ROSA Morgan married Thomas William Fellowes Morris 1870 Kidderminster. It is on FMP but only a transcript.
Dave

Thank you!

Thank you! Mystery thickens.

Thank you!

When Rosa Morris widow married Charles Warren Carpenter in Llandudno she gave her father name as Arthur Morgan, Surgeon. The 1841 census has Rosa 6 months old with her father Arthur, surgeon. She was born in Lichfield, Staffordshire.

Dave

The wedding also shows up in an announcement in a newspaper - the Lichfield Mercury of Friday 17 September 1886.

I was wondering why Lichfield, but Dave T. explained that.

Anyway, on the 9 September 1886 Charles Warren Carpenter "of Richmond, P.Q., Canada” married Rosa Morris, "daughter of A. C. Morgan, Esq., The Woodlands, Chirk, North Wales” at St. George's Church, Llandudno.

Cheers, Andrew P.

Hi Carolyn et al,
There appears to be a few conflicting dates surrounding EVA GLADYS CARPENTER.
On Family Search website there is a travel document for her in Jan/1913 aged 24y, crossing from Port Huron, Canada with a destination of Chicago, Illinois.
Destination address: her Uncle Henry (Rosa's brother.)

It is unclear if this is a pleasure visit or immigration.
Also on this document is where EVA was born, 1889 ERDINGTON, England which I understand is very close to Lichfield. Like evryone else, I cannot find a birth reg. for EVA.

Another conflict on this document is a date of landing in Quebec, Sept/1888, unless this date referred to her Uncle Henry's landing..?? and Rosa(Eva's mother) arrived later.

Canadian census for 1891 shows the family living in Richmond,Quebec.
CHARLES. W. CARPENTER age 41
ROSA CARPENTER age 44
EVA G, CARPENTER age 3

in 1901 still in Richmond Quebec but no Charles listed.
ROSA CARPENTER age 58 born England. (married).
EVA G. CARPENTER age 12 born England
+ 2 boarders.
HAPPY HUNTING :sleuth_or_spy:

Thank you! I appreciate all the time you have put in to help me. I’ll keep working on it. Stay safe and healthy.
Carolyn

Carolyn et al
As Wendy has pointed out there are quite a few inconsistencies around this particularly in documents from the American side. Here are a few hard facts from the UK side:
1 Rosa was birth registered in LICHFIELD in Q2 1839. Based on the page number I estimate that was in the 3rd week of April (her declared birthday was 23rd April according to Ancestry trees. I assume someone bought the certificate)
2. She was with her parents in 1841 census (6th June) in Lichfield age 2 ie born before 6th June 1839)
3. She was with her maternal grandmother on 1851 census (30 March) age 11 (just before her 12th birthday)
4. Her parents Harriet and Arthur were in Lichfield on the same date. With them was her mother’s sister Maria Smith. Harriet was dying because:
5. Mother Harriet was death registered Lichfield Q2 1851. Based on page number that was in 3rd week of April.
6. Rosa is in Lichfield with her father and stepmother on 7th April 1861 age 21 (just before her 22nd birthday).
Everything consistent and correct so far. But now it gets variable:
7. Rosa married Thomas William Fellowes Morris on 12th May 1870 in Stone, Kidderminster. Only have transcript so do not know declared age.
8 1871 census (Apr 2) Rosa and Thomas are with his parents in a large house (Stone, Kidderminster) with 6 servants. She declares age 29. Actually she was a couple of weeks short of her 32nd Birthday
9 There are no births registered on GRO for Morris mmn Morgan. (I suspect they had none)
10 Cannot find them in 1881, cannot with certainty find a death for Thomas. Were they out of the country?
11. 1886 9th Sept Rosa Morris, Widow marries Charles Warren Carpenter in Llandudno. She says she was 45. Actually she was 47 and 5 months.
12 1891 6th April Quebec Rosa (49) , Charles and a daughter Eva Gladys (3). In fact Rosa was a couple of weeks short of her 52nd birthday.
In England and Wales on censuses people were asked to give age LAST birthday. I believe that in Canada they were asked to declare age NEXT birthday. If so Eva Gladys was born 1889, which is consistent with her age she declared later.
I find it difficult to believe that Rosa gave birth to Eva Gladys (apparently her first and only child) AT THE AGE OF 50. Not only that, according to declared birth dates, she gave birth to her exactly on her 50th birthday.
I suspect that Eva Gladys was “adopted”, which would explain why we can find no birth registration.
Was she a birthday present?
Note that her grandfather Arthur Carey Morgan, the surgeon, lived to age 93 and he left a will. The Executrix was Fanny, Rosa’s step-mother. That may be worth purchasing.
Dave

I honestly don’t know how I could possibly thank you enough and everyone that had taken time to help me with this mystery. Could I bother you to ask where I would request to purchase that will?
Sincerely, Carolyn

Dear Dave,
Could I ask where you found the 1871 census where Rosa and Thomas were living with his parents? I can’t find that anywhere.
Sincerely,
Carolyn

CAROLYN
Arthur Carey Morgan died 1902. Probate Lichfield
You can buy the will online at probatesearch.service.gov.uk

Dave

Thank you!

Hi Dave et al,
FYI re Canadian census age
1851 & 1861 age next birthday
1871, 1881 & 1891 age at last birthday
1901 & 1911 3 columns: month & date- year of birth & age last birthday.

Another suggestion for Eva Gladys Carpenter is she was born on board ship, so used the last known address.
On the 1901 Canadian census they also give the year of immigration and for both Rosa and Eva it is 1889 and Eva was born in 1889
HAPPY HUNTING :sleuth_or_spy:

Carolyn
According to newspaper reports Thomas Morris of Stone House Kidderminster, Rosa's father in law, was all but bankrupted in October 1871 and his creditors sold the contents of his home.
Dave

Dave, Very interesting! I have another twist to this story. Rosas brother Henry Morgan (born 1845) to Arthur and Harriet is also my great great grandfather. Henry, it seems may have immigrated to Canada and married Isabella McIndoe. Eva Gladys married Henry and Isabella’s son Clarence in Indiana, USA. I had only believed that Henry had two children. Clarence and Irene. But I’m suspicious that he was previously married in England to a Sarah Ada Johnson with whom he had 3 children (I believe). But, I can find no death for Sarah Ada and I’m wondering if divorce was common at all in the 1880s or did he leave his family and start a new life?
Hmmmm
Sincerely,
Carolyn

Hi Carolyn et al,
There was a Sarah Ada Morgan died March qtr. 1901 at Reg.district of Reading, Berkshire, age 56 which puts her about the same age as Henry.(B:1845) Ref: Free BMD
I have found two children for MORGAN with mmn JOHNSON in Lichfield
Arthur Edward Morgan B: 1871 (Arthur after Henry's father)??
Ada Constance Morgan B: 1874 (Constance after Henry's step sister)??
Ref: GRO

HAPPY HUNTING:sleuth_or_spy:

Well what a mix up. There was a possible third Morgan Johnson child Harriet Ethel b Q4 1875 Lichfield but she died there q2 1876.
Note that on the 1881 census Henry is with his parents in Oswestry, no sign of Sarah Ada or the two children and yet he is marked as married.
Strangely I can find no further clear trace of the two children in censuses, in marriages or in deaths. Could it be that they emigrated with Henry? (and therefore possibly Sarah Ada as well)?
If you want to be absolutely certain it is the same Henry then you could buy the 1869 marriage cert from GRO cost £11. it will give his fathers name and occupation.
Divorce was very difficult in those days and was only for the rich. Even then there had to be at the very least proven or admitted adultery by the female, or that and more(unsavoury) acts by the male.
Dave

Thank you Wendy & Dave,
Yes, I will buy that marriage certificate. What I saw that peaked my interest was on the 1891 census of Arthur Cary as Head of family, I also saw 2 listed grandsons, Arthur & Richard. I also found the 1881 with those boys and a Constance Morgan living with a schoolmaster and other children in the Parish of Aston in Erdington. This is all like a puzzle that keeps growing.
Kind regards,
Carolyn

Carolyn, an earlier message from Wendy said that Eva Gladys was born in erdington, which was in the Aston reg district.
In 1881 the 3 children are obviously in a boarding school.
I wonder if Sarah Ada was simply a recording error on the 1881 census and she was actually with Henry at his parents home.
Dave

From GRO ADA Sarah Johnson born Q3 1843 Birmingham MMN Laughton
From FMP Edward Johnson married Elizabeth Laughton Warwickshire 1835
From Ancestry 1881 census in ERDINGTON, Aston, Edward Johnson plus Eliza Johnson plus DAUGHTER ADA MORGAN (35) MARRIED
Ada has (understandably) been mis transcribed as ACTA.

Dave

Wow! So if indeed this is my Henry Morgan who married Ada Johnson they were seemingly separated in 1881. They had the kids in a boarding school and they are each living with their parents. So intriguing.

Carolyn, you cannot conclude that they were living apart. All you know is that is where they were on the night of the census.
Dave

Oh yes. Thank you that is true.