Does anyone know how the Court House numbering system worked? My mom was born in 1935 at Number 2 Court 4 Ditchingham Steet - trying to figure out how the numbering system worked to find a image of the house. Thankyou!

Kay, I believe the first number is the house number and the second is the court number. No doubt someone will correct me if I am wrong.
Dave

I think Kay was implying how the number of the courts worked for example did it go 1 2 3 4 5 6 in a or did it go 1 3 5 2 4 6 where 2 was opposite 1 4 was opposite 3 and 6 was opposite 5

Kay, sorry, just checked where my mother was born in 1912. I may have it the wrong way round. It matters to me too in whether or not there is a picture on Picture Sheffield.
Please help someone!
Dave

Hi, the numbers are relative to back to back houses. The house number is as in a normal street 1,3,5,7 or 2,4,6,8 etc the court number is the back of the houses in a court yard entered by a passage way, usually 5 houses in the yard.numbered 1-5 each time. My Grand Parents lived at 12 court 1 Portland St so I am fairly confident of my answer. Regards Barry Green

Oh right - so the same as the example from Nottingham in the Wikipedia page on back-to-backs (though it's a bigger court). I'd been planning to ask my Mum tonight but it looks like you've sorted it already.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Back-to-back_house#/media/File:Plans_an_pictures_of_back-to-back_houses_in_Nottingham._Wellcome_L0011651.jpg

Just be wary though in 1912 My grandfather was born at 29 court 6 house Granville street Sheffield. I need to check but this court was behind I think 193 Grannville Street need to find another certificate to clarify

Thank you Barry and john. Those high court numbers confirm that they used court number first. So it looks like my mothers birth house is not pictured on Picture Sheffield and Kay's mothers is
Dave

Hi

So taken from some of the recent transcriptions for this site, some examples -

21 C 6 H
3 Court 5 House
26 Court 5 House
C 4 H 13
No 2 House Court 1
8 H 5 Ct
11/5

So in general it seems to be Court first, then House number. But as you can see it can be the other way around !

Why would it be consistent and straightforward - this is family research!!!

EDIT

Just found this map which may help explain the system as it shows courts and houses laid out.

https://www.sheffieldhistory.co.uk/forums/uploads/monthly_07_2009/post-6362-1248441081.jpg

Denise

When my grandfather married the MC said her was living at 193 Granville Stree, when his sister married 6 years earlier the MC said BACK 193 Granville Street so it looks like some streets had normal houses then ever so often there was a passage way to a court which was then dived into houses. Granville Street runs up from Park Square Roundabout to Granville Road... what the supertram runs on now.

Denise,
good thinking to use the records on this site to sort it out. Just checked burials, parish records and school records and it is overwhelmingly (by thousands) court first,
Thank you
Dave

Thanks Dave

Just doing some transcribing now and realised it was staring me in the face!!

Denise

This is a 1954 MAP from Sheffield History...

https://www.sheffieldhistory.co.uk/forums/uploads/monthly_09_2008/post-188-1220786216.jpg

This only has one court (Court 2) in Ditchingham St, with four houses. Comparing this with a 1937 map from NLS rules out, for me, the possibility that a court 4 had disappeared between those dates

If it is *house* 4 then that was the back half of 10 Ditchingham St.

EDIT and there are photos at Picture Sheffield of this court and the street frontage.

Hugh

Thank you all for your detailed responses and links - I am hopeful that one of those court house pictures on Sheffield Pictures was indeed where my mom was born and grew up!

Even though as you say House 4 was behind 10 Ditchingham Street could the reason it be called court 2 was because it was down the second passageway.

Hi having looked at the map supplied by Hue it would appear that the court numbers were not the house numbers in the court as each court only had 5 houses maximum and as you can see the ends house had an off shot kitchen.
It would seem that at certain times the courts were given numbers and in others the house in the court was the number. This would explain the difference and help to confuse the issue when researching.
When it was the house number first this was the number of the house in the street and then court was the number of the house in the court. When it was the court number first this had no bearing on the street number.
Hope this makes sense and helps in understanding.
Regards Barry Green

Yes, this turns out to be a surprisingly complicated question.

I looked at Ditchingham Street in the scans of all of the censuses where it shows up. They used three different styles to refer to these houses through the years (in the census anyway - might have been different for other purposes).

They started using court number first and then house number in the census from 1901.

1861: not there, only a few people in the street (being built?)
1871: "back of 10", "back of 8", etc.
1881: "back of 10", etc.
1891: 1 house 2 court, 2 house 2 court, 3 house 2 court, 4 house 2 court.
1901: 2 court 1 house, 2 court 2 house, 2 court 3 house, 2 court 4 house.
1911: 2 ct 1h etc.
1939: 2 ct 1h etc.

The enumerators from 1891 on generally went into the court and visited the houses in the order 2/1, 2/2, 2/3, 2/4 except in 1901 when he did 2, 1, 3, 4 for some reason.

I asked my Mum about the numbering scheme for courts and houses and she could remember loads of stuff, including all of the people who lived in their court and events like when one of the ladies in the court got the official telegram that her boy (only son) was killed in the war and ran out into the court crying and my Nan and the others had to look after her best they could, all kinds of things like that.

But she couldn't remember the house numbering scheme at all. Probably because she never cared about it or had to know. When she was young they just knew everyone local and where they lived, so if my Nan wanted something from a neighbour she wouldn't tell Mum to "proceed to 9 court 2 house whatever" she'd say "go and ask Mrs. Dyson...".

Barry, your idea that courts all had a maximum of 5 houses is not the case. Courts came in all sorts of sizes and arrangements. Not all the houses were the backs of back-to-backs. There could be other terraces or individual houses within the courts.

John, the Court numbers work like the house numbers, odd and even. Even numbered courts were on the even side of the street. So Court 2 is the first (and as it turns out) the only court on that side. There were no courts at all on the odd side.

So, there was a court 2 but no court 1.

My attitude to the way these numbers were written down is...don't take anything for granted :smile: Look for corroborating evidence if possible.

Hugh

On this site there are addresses in burials, baptisms, marriages, school records, 1841 census and directories.
In all those records together there are fewer than 200 court addresses in which the house number is put first, and in those cases it clearly states it is house number.
Conversely there are over 65000 records with court address in the form Xct Y (X is 1 to 29 and Y is almost completely 1 to 5) so Court first House second.
A very tiny percentage of exceptions do not invalidate the rule.
Dave

Morning DaveT & Kay,

When we transcribed we entered exactly what was written on the census or in the Church Register.

i.e. 5ct 6h. Fitzwilliam St.

Elaine in Ottawa.

Instant Messenger: Skype

On the map of courts off Penistone Rd linked to above there are, in five consecutive courts, these numbers of houses:

6, 5, 13, 30, 8

So four out of five with more than 5 houses?

An interesting contrast with the figures from records!

Hugh

Hugh,
I need to make one small change to my statement on house numbers in courts in sheffield.
Using the baptism records over to the left the following numbers are statistically significant for the whole of Sheffield.
75% of all courts had 5 houses or fewer. 90% had 8 houses or fewer.
So my quick unrepresentative scan of 65000 records led to the misleading statement that ALMOST ALL courts were of 5 houses or fewer. That should have been the LARGE MAJORITY were 5 houses or fewer. My apologies.
Dave

Hi well Kay you certainly created a good discussion I would respect Hugh information as I know he has done a great deal of study on ancestral matters. Regards Barry

Hi Barry, it certainly did create some interest. I have asked my elder sister who vaguely remembers visiting the court but no certainty as to which house. My mom was Shirley Bell, her mom Nellie and her dad George. I think (but don't know) that in 1939 it would have been a household of three. Could someone please look on the 1939 census and see what it says about the house number in the court. Once again, many many thanks to all.

Kay, on the 1939 register the family living at 2 court, 4 house Ditchingham street were George Leybourne dob 8 may 1907 and Nellie Leybourne dob 13 nov 1912. One other record is closed.
Dave

Dave T, many thanks, that's them, I made a faux pas in providing my nan's maiden name.....oops, but my mystery is solved, off to buy a print from the Sheffield Pictures site thanks to all of you!