In March 1877 Henry Hind,Williams, bachelor, 26, tramcars driver married Mary Ann Ross at Christ Church Attercliffe. His father was William Williams, organist and her father George William Ross was a pawnbroker in Carbrook. A daughter Sarah Ross Williams was born in October 1878. In 1880 Mary Ann took Sarah with her parents and brother William to Adelaide, no mention of Henry H ever again and she is later referred to as a widow. He is not mentioned as Sarah's father when Sarah marries, instead it says she is the granddaughter of George William Ross.

So was Henry H a bigamist?????

He was brought up in Liverpool with his parents, had a twin brother and lived with his mother until 1871. 1881 he is back in Liverpool and a plumber living with his "wife" Annie (no marriage certificate found) and children - two of whom had been born in 1876 and 1878, when he was with Mary Ann.

I can find absolutely no trace of him in Sheffield apart from his wedding.

Can anyone help? This is just one of the mysteries I am solving about my Ross ancestors, even going to Adelaide last year to solve some.
I would be grateful for any help.
Sue Hill

Hi Sue

All the children who appear on the 1881 and 1891 census with Henry and Annie in Liverpool are registered with the Mothers Maiden name WARBURTON.

Theres a marriage in 1873 in Cheshire (where Annie says she was born)

27 Nov 1873,
Henry Williams, Full age, bachelor, Plumber, New Boughton, Father Richard Williams (deceased), Chemist.

Ann Warburton, Full age, Spinster, New Boughton, Father George Warburton, Tailor

Witnesses:Edward and Ellen Steel

So this looks like the family on the census records, but obviously Henrys father is different.

How sure are you that Henry Williams the Plumber, living with Annie in Liverpool in 1881 and 1891 and 1901 is Henry Hind Williams?

Denise

Henry Hind Williams reg June quarter 1850 at West Derby mother's maiden name ATKINS

Hi Denise
Thank you for such a prompt reply and research!

I suppose that I am clutching at straws as the only reference I have for Henry Hind Williams was the link from two family trees on Ancestry, where he is given his full name nod also the parentage was correct (William and Ellen). There is no mention of Mary Ann Ross, but given the nature of her family that doesn't surprise me! When she left for Adelaide with her parents her brother William left a wife and three children behind (my 2xgreatgrandparents) in unhappy circumstances. I thought initially that Mary was leaving an unhappy marriage and going for a better life. Her death certificate says she was the widow of "Harry".

The Ross family have presented me with many challenging, yet fascinating, research threads and a story I could not have believed when I started on the research. Mary ended in a pauper's grave in Adelaide, her daughter had a happier life.

So my search for Henry Hind Williams is to give me more information about Mary Ann, and maybe her Ross family.
Thank you for your prompt help and response
Sue

Thank you John
Sue

Sue, you said in your original post that when sarah married she did not name a father but instead named a grandfather. Did she really use the word grandfather or did she just use the name of her grandfather?
Dave

Hi Sue

I've had a quick look at the trees on Ancestry and I think they've done whats common on Ancestry - they've taken what looks like a match just in terms of 'face value' without doing any validating research (the hard bit)!

I've checked the birth/baptism for the Henry H Williams, Plumber, with wife Annie on the 1881,1891,1901 census. And hes actually Henry Herbert Williams, father Richard Williams, Druggist (which matches the marriage I found for Henry Williams and Ann Warburton).

So I think you can safely discount this family from now on.

Denise

Thank you Dave - I knew it was a long shot but ....

Nevertheless, I am still no nearer to finding out about what happened to Henry Hind W. In the two years before Mary Ann left for Adelaide, or after! I can’t trace hii will get my Adelaide notes out later to give you details of Sarah’s marriage.
Many thanks
Sue

As I suspected Denise, clutching at bendy straws ....
But still no wiser about what happened to Henry Hind W after 1878.Any guesses?
Sue

Sue and Denise
Assuming he died as Harry there is a good possibility in 1902 of the death of a Harry William's age 50 in West Derby, which is the area Henry Hind was born, and presumably where his twin brother and the rest of his family lived.
Sue, when did Mary Ann die please? I assume she did not marry again.
Dave

Sue, do you also have anything with Mary Anns last address in Sheffield?

I've tried searching for their travel/passenger lists/immigration records to see if they held an address, but cant find any at the moment.

Denise

Hi Dave and Denise
Mary Ann died in Port Adelaideon 20 January 1900. Her death certificate says that she was the widow of Harry Williams, labourer. She is described as a dressmaker and was buried in a pauper's grave in Cheltenham Cemetery, Adelaide.

Did she marry again? Another mystery! Mary Ann Williams, daughter of George William Ross, married a William Bothwell in St. Luke's Church, Adelaide on 9/11/1890. He was a Scottish mariner and also widowed. And then he disappears! No mention of him in the many records I searched in Adelaide and Mary Ann and daughter don't refer to him! In the death announcement that Sarah put in the Adelaide newspapers and in a couple of In Memorium notices, there is no notice of any husbands.

Just one of the Ross siblings with secrets

Sue

Sue, was Mary ann Williams said to be a widow on the marriage to Bothwell?
Was she buried as Williams?
It sounds as if Mary Ann may have committed Bigamy, unless Henry Hind died before 1890.
Very strange. Two marriages and 2 disappearing husbands. And her brother left his wife and children.
Do you have the answer to the grandfather question on Sarah's marriage?
Dave

Hi Denise and Dave

I know that when Mary Axnn was born on 31/3/1857 the Ross family were in Brightside. In 1861 they were in Saville Street..I presume that Mary Ann may have lived at home until she married. From Electoral registers I see that her father George William had had properties in Carlton St and Bright St. When Mary Ann married in 1877 he had a sales shop (pawnbroker) and house at 173 Bright Street. Brother John lived in Dun St (Dunlop) and Carbrook Street. Eldest brother William was also on these streets and abandoned his wife to go with the family.

Father George Ross wrote a will in November 1880, before they left - I have a copy and probate notes from Oz. In the will George was said to have sold his business and was living at457 Attercliffe Road - all the money to be used to buy land and pay for the passages.

Very much a Carbrook/Attercliffe based family.

MARY Ann Williams and her daughter went out to Australia with her father George William Ross(59), mother Mary Ann (60) and brother William (33). They had unassisted passages on SS Chimborazo and arrived on 2/1/1881. Her parents bought land in Mount Torrens in the Adelaide Hills and her brother William went prospecting there too. Mary Ann stayed in Port Adelaide area.

Enough to addle your brains for now - not all the mysteries or tragedies though!

Sue

.

Yes, Dave, she was described as a widow on the Bothwell certificate and she was buried with her Williams name. No headstone of course. Maybe she was a black widow spider!

I can't find a marriage certificate for Sarah, but announcements in various papers just say she is granddaughter of George William Ross - who was already dead,

The Ross family has more marriage/abondonning in their story!! Another brother Thomas must have left his family when he joined them and came to a tragic end - but another woman was claiming to be his wife in Adelaide!
Sue

Wow.
I suspect that DNA would be very revealing.
Dave

Sue, is it possible that Henry Hind Williams got on the boat with them and died en route, buried at sea?

When I finish writing their “story” I can email it to you!
Sue

Sue one small point, there is nothing unusual in a local Aussie newspaper reporting that Sarah was the grandchild of George William. That is what would have been relevant to the local community, who would have known him before he died. The newspaper would not mention her father because he would not be relevant to their circulation if he had never been there. What would be unusual would be if a marriage certificate mentioned him rather than her father.
Dave

I did think this too Denise, although George did not live in Sdelaide and had died quite a while before she married.
I will see if a genealogy contact in Blumberg can find out for me after lockdown.
Sue

Just a long shot here but could Henry Hind Williams been upto no good spent time in prison or still up to know good could he have vanished and changed his name so not to be found?

How would we find out??

Sue, this whole story would make a lot more sense if Henry Hind (Harry) Williams went to Australia BEFORE the Ross family,
Dave

Totally agree Dave. A few years ago I found a reference to a Henry Hind going out a few years later but could find no proof while I was there last year.
I did however discover that they probably went because one of George’s cousins had gone out there in 1850’s and made a lot of money. On a return visit to Europe they must have told the Rosses as they leave the next year nd buy land near to cousins. I wondered whether Henry may have followed them, to set up things, but no luck. I will ask my contact in the little Gumeracha Historical Centre if she can find out, but again this will be after lockdown allows them to open their little office.
Thanks for your ongoing interest and suggestions
Sue

Sue, there would not be a need to return visit to uk. Communication by letter and even telegraph would be enough.
I have many examples of a man going to either America or Australia ahead of his wife and young children. They would follow later when he established a home.
Of course when things were like that, anything could happen. One party may die, or even a wife and children may change their minds and not follow. However the man was still legally responsible for looking after his wife and children even from the other side of the world.
I have details of one man who accompanied his son, daughter in law and children to Oz, leaving his wife and other grown up children behind. This was just before ww1. By the end of the war he had built many properties out there, but then died there. His wife never went out there and died much later in England.
Dave

Yes, Dave I too have other ancestors who went out separately, to both Oz and USA.in the case of the Fawcetts (George’s cousin) they became wealthy and. I read in both their obituaries that they had returned to Europe for 18 months - presumably to see some of the European sites as well as a trip home. I am sure that George, who had made a fair amount as a pawnbroker, would have been impressed and wanted to try his hand, particularly as there were goldmines still being found and worked in the area.
It was marvellous to visit the area and with old maps fromGumeracha, to see share they had farmed - both in an agricultural sense as well as for gold.
From the subsequent circumstances of son William’s wife, I am certain he did not intend to send for her.
Sue