Hi,
I am trying to trace the marriage of a Jonathan CRAPPER, a 32 yr old razor blade forger shown in the 1851 census as living at Ran Moor, Upper Hallam, to his wife 'Fanny'. Is this the same Jonathan CRAPPER as shown in the 1841 census, as a 20 yr old bead maker, living at Ran Moor? I can't find a marriage between a Jonathan CRAPPER and anyone named Fanny between 1840-1850. Can anyone help, please?

There is a marriage of a jonathan Crapper in Sheffield in 1843 but no Fanny as the first name. Try looking for the name of his children on the GRO Index (this is not working for me at the moment) to get the surname of the mother hopefully that will tally with one of the names listed. Fanny could just be how she was known to everyone.

Hi John, Thanks for the swift reply. I am aware of that marriage in 1844, but it isn't the one I want (I don't think!). I am trying to trace backwards the Jonathon CRAPPER in the 1861 Census, a 42 yr old razor blade forger living at St Phillips Rd, N. Sheffield, with wife Ann & family. The Jonathan CRAPPER in the 1851 census is also a razor blade forger & 10 yrs younger there, but has a wife Fanny. But that's OK as a Fanny CRAPPER died in 1854 in Sheffield, and Jonathon married Ann DOWNEND in Rotherham in 1855. That all seems to fit. But what was Fanny's maiden name (if indeed as you say Fanny was even her first name)? How can I link him to the Jonathon CRAPPER in the 1841 census, also living at Ran Moor, without a marriage? A JOSEPH CRAPPER married a Fanny WARD in 1844 (FreeBMD), but this is Jonathon....??? Am I being dense??

hello Peter.

Jonathan Crapper b 1820 a razor blade forger married Fanny Downend age 21 Oct 28 1845 at Rotherham All Saints, residence was West Gate. His father was James Crapper a Mason her father was William Downend a farmer.

Regards

Terry

btw Bravenet does not inform me when a reply was posted.

no wonder did not find that marriage free bmd has his surname as CrappeN

Hi Peter, Jonathan Crapper shown as Crappen married Fanny Downend Oct 1845 Rotherham. Regards Barry

Hi terry,

Thanks for your reply. So Jonathan CRAPPER m. Fanny DOWNEND in Rotherham in 1845, and has 2 children by her (Albert, 1846, Mary Ellen 1849). She dies in 1854, and he then marries Ann DOWNEND in 1855, also in Rotherham. It's not important to me at the moment, but I assume then that Fanny & Ann were closely related in some way (sisters??). Also, from your message I take it that Jonathon was a razor blade forger at the time of marriage (1845). If so, that is very useful to know, as is that his father was James, a Mason (stone, not religious I guess). I have some other CRAPPER records (from your web site) which lists a Jonathon CRAPPER bapt in March 1819 (not 1820) at St Nicholas, Bradfield, whose father was a mason named James (& mother named Mary). That just about links with the 1841 census entry where Mary is shown without an obvious husband, but whose elder son John is a mason (I think, image is poor). Like father, like son, I guess!! It would be nice though if the census gave the younger son Jonathon's profession as blade forger, not bead maker.

Thank you very much.

Hi Peter,

The Crappers are certainly in the St Nicholas baptismal registers that I am transcribing at the moment. They have not been checked and cover the 1840-1860 time period.

They will be uploaded as soon as possible.

Just as a teaser.......are these some of yours?

1850-05-12 CRAPPER Mary Joseph Elizabeth Worrall Shoemaker ~ J.F.Robinson St Nicholas Bradfield elainep
1850-05-12 CRAPPER Joseph Joseph Elizabeth Worrall Shoemaker ~ J.F.Robinson St Nicholas Bradfield elainep

Elaine in Ottawa.

Instant Messenger: Skype

Just a note Peter.

When you use our Database (nearly 2,000,0000 entries.)

If you use the surname, Crapper in this case and then add the fathers name. You will pick up any children bore between census.

To pick up any errors spelling or typos use the Wild card.

Elaine in Ottawa.

Instant Messenger: Skype

It's amazing how many people called Jonathan Crapper were roaming around Sheffield and Rotherham in the 1800s, including at least two baptised in St. Nicholas at Bradfield in 1819 (the son of Joseph and Ann on 24 Jan and the son of James and Mary on 28 March).

I think that your Jonathan went on to have more children (mother's maiden name also Downend) including William Downend Crapper. and in 1861 he was living on St Philip's road (just round the corner from where I lived as a child a hundred years later).

Fanny Crapper's address when she died was St. Phillip's road according to the burial record.

Anyway, I wonder if Jonathan's occupation in 1841 was "brad maker" not "bead maker"?

It would have been less of a jump from making brad nails to forging razor blanks than starting on beads and working your way up to razors. Just a theory.

Cheers,

Andrew.

Dear Andrew,
Thank you for your comments - there is some helpful stuff there. Yes, it's incredible how many people in an area seem to share the same name - no wonder it's sometimes confusing! I have lately been looking (in a different project)at SPINNEYs from N. Dorset & it's amazing how many seem to have the same name, and moreover, how many of them were blacksmiths!!

Yes in 1861 Jonathon was living in St Phillips Road with wife Ann (nee DOWNEND) + 6 children (acc. 1861 Census). I already mentioned Albert & Mary Ellen in an earlier post, but he also had William, Downing, Anne E., & Walter (after 1861 he added Ada & Frank). Walter is the direct relation of the person for whom I am looking at this. As I am only trying to trace this line of the CRAPPER name backwards it isn't really necessary to look at everyone, but I have struggled with 'Downing'. Your post mentions William Downend CRAPPER - that would answer why I could find no trace of 'Downing' anywhere outside this census entry. But did Jonathon really have a William AND a William Downend as 2 sons, born just 3 years apart?

Also, I like your theory of his occupation being 'brad maker' not 'bead maker'; making beads is not what I would associate the city with!

Thank you very much for replying.
Peter

Dear Elaine,
Thank you for your two replies.

I have no connections with Sheffield and am not trying to chart the entire Sheffield Crapper family, merely 1 small line of it. Because of this, the 2 you mention are not part of the line I am following, but thanks anyway.

I will try to take on board your other comments about using the website to pick up the names of any others.

I believe you are the moderator/originator so I have to say that I have been very enlightened using the forum, which has (mostly) been very easy and rewarding.

THANK YOU TO EVERYONE who has taken time to reply.

Sincerely
Peter Tandy