After some help if anyone can please. Harold Smith is my maternal Grandad and I do know quite a bit about him, but not about his older brother Clifford. There was a tale in the family when I was young that Clifford absconded from duty at the start of WW2 and a warrant was out for his arrest. Nannan and Grandad never would tell us the whole story and now they're both gone and Mum doesnt know anymore. Its a nightmare trying to find him - but thats not the help I'm after for now

Harold Smith - I cant find him on the 1939 Register. I've found my Great-Grandparents and his isnt listed as living with them at the time this was taken. I thought if I could at least find him in 1939 I might find his brother. I know Harold served in the Coldstream Guards during the war, but there are a lot of Smiths in the world serving in the miltary and I'm stuck. Probably missing something really obvious so if anyone could help I would be massively grateful

Ask for more detail if you need it - its fine

TIA - Sarah x

Hi Sarah,

Do you have a birth date for Clifford please. That might help us. I presume we are looking for any info on Clifford. His parents names might help as well.

Elaine in Ottawa.

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If Harold and Clifford were both in the forces when the 1939 register was taken then they won't be on it.

The 1939 Register was taken on 29 September 1939. The information was used to produce identity cards and, once rationing was introduced in January 1940, to issue ration books. Information in the Register was also used to administer conscription.

Registration of members of the armed forces was dealt with by the military authorities, so the 1939 Register does not include service personnel in military, naval and air force establishments. Nor does it include members of the armed forces billeted in private homes, including their own homes.

Angela

Sarah,
It looks like your mother is next of kin to Harold and possibly Clifford. Therefore you should be able to purchase the Ww2 papers for Harold, and possibly for Clifford. Each one will cost £30and she can apply to the Glasgow records office. Google Ww2 service records to get an application form to download. You will need either army number or birth date for each of them. If Clifford married and had children then you may need to find one of them as next of kin to him.
Dave

To Carry on from Angela,

Last Night I looked at the 1939 index (FMP).

Is this the family.??

Frederick Smith aged 51
Jennie aged 48
May (Taylor) aged 19
Harry aged 17
Gladys aged 14.

Elaine in Ottawa.

Marriage of Frederick to a Jennie Bramall Dec qtr 1910 Sheffield 9c 1034.
I believe that I also noted from the Sheffield Council BMD site the following.
District: Ecclesall West Central
Birth - 34/6
Details: Harold SMITH - 01/01/1921

Clifford was giving me some trouble pinpointing him.

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Hi all

We think Clifford was born in 1919 but that's all we know. Apparently my Grandad didnt talk much about him due to the desertion story - he certainly never told me anything

Their father is Charles Smith b 5.2.1892 - d 23.2.1982
Mother is Emily Winifred Bagguley(spelt a variety of ways over time)b 16.1.1897 - d 2.7.1988

I've researched them quite a bit - but Clifford eludes me. I cant wait for the 1921 Census to be released - I'm sure it will help more

Thanks everyone who's taken time to read my thread

Hi,


This looks like his birth reg.

SMITH, CLIFFORD BAGULEY
GRO Reference: 1919 S Quarter in ECCLESALL BIERLOW Volume 09C Page 669

Elaine.

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Sarah,
Your family story about Clifford. Did he abscond and disappear forever or did he return to the fold and complete his service?
Dave

Clifford's baptism is in the Parish records over to the left.
Dave

Hi there

From what little I know, he never returned to the family fold. There was a news article I remember my Uncle showing me but he’s gone now and I’ve no idea what happened to the cutting, that my great grandma was never convinced he went AWOL and was trying to clear his name

I certainly never saw him throughout my childhood. Emily was a right cantankerous old mare and a right character though. Mum tells me when she was a kid if she fell out with you for whatever reason she’d turn your photo to the wall!! 😂

Thanks for your help everyone x