Alice Turner born 1863 Lincoln has been a mystery to me and another person I know trying to find her.

Alice was born in 1863 daughter of Richard Turenr and Elizabeth Sewards.

She is with the family at 110 Bright Street Sheffield on the 1871 census and we think she is a servant at 38 Burngreave Road in 1881.

There the story goes cold from what I understand from the person I am helping to find her is that she married a bank clerk was a member of the salvation army and went to Buenos Aries but we are not sure if that was to live or to work.

We have not been able to trace a marriage or a death and my friend has contacted the salvation army but they have found no trace (using Alice Turner)

I know there are some absolute stars on this site so if any of them can come up trumps and help us solve this mystery feel free to take up the challenge.

Any help, as always, really appreciated.

Thanks in advance

John

John,
Alice Louisa Pearson born 3.6.1891, Baptised 2.12.1911 at St Andrews Scots Presbyterian Church Buenos Aires.
Father Samuel A Pearson, 44, employee, Mother ALICE TURNER 48. Both born England.

Looks promising
Dave

Edit also same church, Albert Edward Pearson born at Lomas de Zamora on 9.6.1906 baptised 12.8.1906.
Father Samuel Arthur, employee 39, mother Alice Turner 42 both born England

Hi John

Following on from Daves find:

S A Pearson aged 34
A Pearson wife aged 28
A L Pearson child aged 6
F C Pearson child aged 1
F G Pearson aged 20
A W Pearson child aged 4

Sailed 23 Mar 1898 from Newport to Buenos Aires
Ship: Lomas (Holland Line to the River Plate)

Denise

Thank you very very much to both of you for the information need to find the marriage now.

John

GRO Index has birth reg Frederick Charles Pearson 1897 St Saviour MMN Turner
and Albert William Pearson 1893 West Ham mmn Turner
Alice Louisa TURNER was registered 1892 Hackney illegitimate.
That explains her baptism at age about 20 in Buenos Aires.
Dave

thank you dave, no marraige showing up though on Free BMD site yet but they must have married in the UK

Denise,

The ages you quoted, were those the ages when they set sail in 1898 because if so Alice would have been 35 and not 28.

Wonder if Alice could have been married before and hence why I can't find a Alice Turner to a samuel Pearson.

John
The first child was born illegitimate in, London. The second child was born very shortly afterwards and was legitimate. That means the father accepted it was his.The first child, illegitimate, was baptised 20 years later as Samuel's, so he clear.y accepted she was his
They never married.
Dave

Thanks Dave for confirming they never married. Have you any idea when they died please? I presume they never returned to UK.

I'm the other chap working with John on this. Here's a Freemason member register entry. The fact he's a clerk is of interest...

Name: Samuel Arthur Pearson
Gender: Male
Initiation Age: 45
Birth Year: 1866
Initiation Date: 17/05/1911
First Payment Year on Register: 1911
Year range: 1910-1921
Profession: Clerk
Lodge: King Edward VII Lodge
Lodge Location: Banfield, Argentine
Lodge Number: 3504
Folio Number: 10

Banfield is a city in the district of Lomas de Zamora in Buenos Aires Province.

This could be the A W Pearson aged 4 mentioned in a previous post.

Name: Arthur William Pearson
Age: 3
Birth Date: 4 Nov 1894
Baptism Date: 20 Mar 1898
Baptism Place: Stratford, St John, Essex, England
Father: Samuel Arthur Pearson
Mother: Alice Pearson

Baptised 3 days before they sailed?

John, you will find all the records on www.argbrit.gov. The search engine is interesting to say the least

There is a burial for 53 YEAR OLD Alice F Pearson age 53. She was British and died of heart disease. This was at the same church in Buenos Aires in March 1914 Your alice would have been 51

The migration in 1898. Gro index helps you identify all of them. SAMUEL ARTHUR Pearson was born Marylebone 1867 mmn white
FLORENCE Gertrude Pearson born mmn white Marylebone 1878, so 20 in 1898.
So
Samuel and his common law wife Alice with 3 young children and Samuel's 20 YEAR OLD SISTER Florence Gertrude boarded. The children's ages, and Florence Gertrude age are all correct and their births can be found on gro. Both Samuel and Alice ages are wrong.
Guess who was busy with the kids, and who was free enough to answer questions about ages.she got her own age right
Dave

Thanks very much all for your continued help. This all looks very promising.

Steve, no doubt about the ones you have found.They are spot on
Have you noticed that the baptism you found was in london onSunday20 th march 1898 and 3 days later they embarked from Newport to Argentina.
Good luck with following it all up
Dave

Yes, I just edited my post then saw yours. This is brilliant. Alice is the last of 12 siblings that remained a brick wall. The scant information my grandmother noted down may well be scant if Alice's lifestyle wasn't approved of. John & I both have Alice's parents as common ancestors.

dave, for future reference please how did you go about this? I suppose it helps when you know about other websites ie the Argbrit one but other then that we had not got a clue where to start with not finding a marriage or a death. We have been trying to solve this puzzle for ages.

Hi John

John,
I just googled Buenos Aires 1890 and read a few things about how their economy was working and foreign investment and up popped the argbrit website. It then took a few minutes to understand the search engine before getting the baptism info.
It was lucky it was a 'catholic' country. If it had been a British territory Alice would have been recorded as Pearson and not in her maiden name.
Dave

I believe I've found Samuel Arthur Pearson on the 1871 and 1881 census where he is named as Arthur. I believe his father to be also called Samuel so it's reasonable to assume that he was called Arthur when young to distinguish him from his father.

Now on a Buenos Aires census from 1895 (3 years prior to the sailing previously mentioned by Denise) I've found the following:

• Arturo Pearson age 28
• Alisia Pearson age 32
• Arturo Pearson age 2
• Alisia Pearson age 4

Can anyone find previous sailings that might shed light on this?

Hi Steve

I've found another passenger list for 1890 from Southampton to Buenos Aires:

Mrs Turner and Misses Fanny and Alice Turner (no ages)?

I've sent to you.

Denise

Hi Steve
It looked like the Sheffield end of this was complete and you were were looking at Buenos Aires and London, well outside our area. However, in the light of Denise's last response may I suggest you obtain a birth cert.
March Quarter 1884 Sheffield Fanny Turner, illegitimate.
Was the mother your Alice?
Dave

An update on this thread. Thanks to the suggestions made by folks on here I had a strong feeling that this was the Alice Turner John and I were looking for. I engaged a researcher in Argentina and suggested that we find the birth certificate for the youngest child.

After many months of COVID disruption and a poorly functioning records office I today received a copy of the certficate. How does this help? An Argentine birth certificate of that time also names the childs grandparents. Those named were those of the parents of Alice Turner and those of Samuel Arthur Pearson which I already knew.

So, we found our Alice. Just need to find her marriage and death now - both suspected in Argentina.

Wouldn't it be great if English birth certificates had the grandparents named?!

For reference, the four known children were:

Alice Louisa Pearson born 3 Jun 1891 in Argentina
Arthur William Pearson born 4 Nov 1894 in Argentina
Francis Charles Pearson born 20 Jul 1897 at West Ham, Essex
Albert Edward Pearson born 9 Jun 1906 in Argentina

Thanks again Indexers. This isn't the first time I've been helped by this site.

Steve if you go back through this thread you will find i already identified Alice's burial age 53 in Argentina
Dave

Yes, I noted that last year. It may be her but she is not recorded in any other documents (English birth and baptism for example) as having a middle name. In fact none of her 11 siblings have a documented middle name.

Think we need to find when Samuel Arthur Pearson died and then find a will for him to see what that discloses, but I agree with Steve that I doubt that this is our Alice, wonder though could it be a sister of samuel who never married? Going by the fact that Samuel had a middle name and so did this Alice.

Alice Louise Pearson married Howard John Woodward 8 Sept 1931 Perth W Australia.
She died 1939 in Box Hill private nursing home, Victoria 4th May 1939.
The death record says she was born about 1891 in BUENOS AIRES.
The marriage cert may be informative.
Dave

Yes, I've seen that. Her aunt ended up in Western Australia. I've been looking to see if any other members of the family ended up there.

Dave, where did you get the detils from please? I went on the Victoria state website but could not find her record or was there a Victoria in Western Australia?

Steve, no other family member went there. Alice Louise travelled alone from London to Freemanatle in 1923. Two of her brothers married in Argentina and remained there until at least the 1950s
John I found it on a Ancestry public member tree which has the original sources available.
Dave

It's possble her parents could have ended up in Australia. Her aunt was already there. I have the three brothers in Argentina for most of their lives.

Dave, as I have no access to Ancestry, does the tree by any chance give a marriage date and place please for Alice Louise's parents.

No John, it doesn't. It doesn't even have her parents on it.

Steve, thanks for the update. This went a long way from Sheffield.
I am sure if you try you will find death records in Argentina for Samuel and Alice ( that is if you do not already have Alice in 1914)
I assume you have realised that the Argbrit website only covers records up to 1915 so you may need to go direct to Argentina.
Dave

Well it looks like Dave was right. Our reseracher in Argentina has found the death declaration for Alice PEARSON (nee Turner). She died on the 18 March 1914 of heart disease at the Bristish Hospital in Buenos Aires.

The record Dave found was slightly suspicious in that the age was 3 years older and it indicates a middle name starting with "F" and there are no recorded middle names for her or any of her siblings or parents. However, we know surviving relatives can be fuzzy about the deceased's age and the F may well be a transcription arror.

The fact the burial is dated the day after her death and matches the cause of death on the declation strongly suggests it is the right person.

We also found the marriage in 1890 in Buenos Aires which ties in with the years married in the 1895 Arg census. We also have the death declaration for husband Samuel Arthur PEARSON in 1919 which ties in with a Freemasonry record that stated his date of death.

It also looks like they had 5 children which has resulted in me having contact with cousins in Australia and Ammerica.

So, Indexers, you did it again. You helped us on the way to breaking down a brick wall and I'm sure I speak for John S. when I say that we both thank you for your input.

Totally agree with Steve. many thanks to Dave and all the othe indexers on this site for giving us their valuable assistance with this. We had details etc there was possibly an Argentina link but for a long time we had found nothing and was beginning to think it was either a red herring or a brick wall be were never going to break down but thanks to all concerned we did break this brick wall. Stay safe everyone.

John