My great Grandmother was Eliza Frances Shemeld nee Rohleder. She was born 26/9/1867 in Bethnal Green, daughter of William Rohleder and Matilda nee Waterson-they were Upholsterers
In 1885 she married my Great Grandfather John Shemeld b 1865 d 1907 a table blade forger in 1891 they lived at 63, Chester Street , Sheffield
There are endless spellings of Rohleder e.g. Rowleder
I have wondered how a girl from London met a chap from Sheffield-then Arthur Rohleder of Fitzwilliam Street born 23\5\1887 parents Eliza and John Rohleder -blade forger
Can anyone connect the families please?

Hi Andrea,

Something for you to follow through with.

My observations are that Eliza Frances Rowleder was registered in Dec qtr 1867 in Bethnal Green 1c 300. (FreeBMD)

1871 she is on the 1871 father William born 1836.. Mattress Maker born Whitechapel wife Matilda aged 34.

William died in 1883. I am unable to find the 1881 census for William or Eliza.

*BUT.
On FreeBMD.
Deaths Mar 1867
ROWLEDGE William 0 Ecclesall B. 9c 195

Could the parents be related to Eliza and after her fathers death she came up to Sheffield.

When Eliza married (St Georges) in 1885 she was only 19 yrs old.

Elaine in Ottawa.

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Andrea, Are you familiar with the GROIndex?
It shows that Arthur was born in London, and he had a younger sister born in London in 1890.
Therefore Eliza married in Sheffield a few years before Arthur and his parents arrived there.
If there is a family connection then you will only find it by looking at the two family histories in London.
Eliza and her various brothers and sisters had Mmn Waterson
Arthur and his siblings had mmn Clift.
Dave
Edit Eliza parents married in London in 1858. It looks like Arthur's mother Eliza Clift married 1n 1873 in Greenwich,but unfortunately her husbands name is missing.

Thank you so much for looking into this-I don't have the 1881 census either-probably transcribed wrongly-I did find one that the surname was entered as Bohleder.I did not know William Rohleder died in 1883. Who do you think William who died in 1867 is please?

Thank you for your help-On Sheffield Indexers they have the baptism of Arthur Rohleder on 1461887 at St George, Brook Hill-I had assummed this was a Sheffield baptism

I have just looked on the Latter Day Saints website and the marriage in 1871 is to a Charlotte Clift. I can't find one with the Christian name Eliza

Hi Andrea and Dave

The marriage registered at Greenwich is at St Paul Deptford.
3 Aug 1873 John Biffs full age Widower AND
Eliza Clift, full age Widow...father Samuel Martin a Carpenter.

It is available on Ancestry.

Angela

Andrea, this is what I am looking at
From GROIndex
1872 q1 Roahleder Florence Charlotte Mile End mmn Clift
1874 q4 Rohleder Tilah Mary Ann Bethnal Green mmn clift
1877 q2 Roeleader John Thomas Bethnal Green mmn Clift
1882 q2 Rohleder Robert William Bethnal Green mmn Clift
1885 q3 Rohleder Alice Maud Rebecca Clift Bethnal Green mmn Clift
1887 q4 Rohleder Arthur William Poplar mmn Clift
1890 q1 Rohleder Charlotte Rosetta poplar mmn Clift

Free BMD gives a marriage in 1871 of John Rohleder to Charlotte Clift
The baptism in Sheffield on this site gives Arthur Rohleder bap 1887 ,parents John and Eliza, NOT John and Charlotte.
Dave
Edit on Gro index There is no BIrth reg in Sheffield in 1887 for Arthur.
Angela, edit is ok for me
Edit again Add 1879 Rohleder Richard Shuttleworth in Bethnal Green mmn CLIFF

Where has the EDIT gone

The marriage in 1873 is to John BIGGS not BIFFS

Angela

Andrea,
From Gro index,
1887 Q2 Arthur Shemeld Ecclesall Bierlow mmn Rohleder.
So the baptism on this site is for some reason in error. It should be Arthur Shemeld, son of Eliza and John Shemeld, blade forger.
Dave

Thanks-this means this is the Arthur who was my Grandfather's brother
Sadly this does not help me find out how Eliza Frances Rohleder living in London-whose family generally stayed in London met and married John Shemeld who lived in Sheffield and never went anywhere else

John Shemeld married Eliza Rohleder on 16th Feb 1885 at St George's church Sheffield the certficate is on FMP. The transcription though gives brides name as Rakleder.
Note the age of the bride 19 (someone will correct me if I am wrong) but did you not have to be 21 at that time to marry?

Perhaps John was working in London at the time met Eliza and then moved to back to Sheffield fot his work.

If you did have to be 21 at the time she could only have married with her parents consent and since she had no father her mother gave permission so there would be a man around the house for her, or could it be that Eliza was pregnant (had a miscarriage) hence why no record of a birth.

I wonder if the others then followed because there were plenty of jobs in Sheffield.

as always other views are welcome.

John

Andrea, is there any clue in the witnesses at the wedding of Eliza?
Do you know what happened to her 2 older sisters. Could one of them have married and moved to Sheffield first? what about her brother?
Dave

Hi all

I've checked the original baptism record for Arthur in 1887

Baptised 14 June 1887 - ROHLEDER Arthur, Born 23 May 1887
Father: John - Blade Forger
Mother: Eliza
Address : Fitzwilliam Street

So someone appears to have been confused - either the Minister/Curate or they themselves?! It is correct on this site.

Denise

Andrea, she followed her married older sister mary to Sheffield

1876 q4 marriage Bethnal Green Mary Rob-Leder to Edward Watkins from Free BMD
1883 q4 birth Sheffield Florence Watkins, mmn Rohleder from GRO Index.
Dave

The recorder must have put the Mother's maiden name instead of the father's name as this is Arthur Shemeld not Arthur Rohleder

Thank you for solving the mystery for me

I have Eliza Frances's sister Mary Ann Rohleder born 1860-could she have married in 1876?

Andrea
Mary Ann Rohlader born 1860 had mmn Charlton so was not Eliza's sister
Mary Emma Rolater born Q4 1859 Bethnal Green mmn Waterson was her sister.
You need Gro index(free online) to get mmn
Legal marriage age was 12 . She was 17 in q4 1876.
Dave

My maternal Aunt (Grace Tetchner) married a Cyril Rohleder in Limehouse London. He was born in 1923 and died 1992. His mothers maiden name was Howell. Is this any relation?

Hi Andrea et al,
Mary Ann Rohleder B;1860 Bethnal Gr. with mmn CHARLTON
I believe was the cousin of Eliza Frances Rohleder.
Mary Ann's father was Charles William Rohleder B:1828 who married in 1850 Dec qtr. St.George in the East, London (Stepney area I think) to Eliza Charlton(B:1830?)
Charles William R... was the brother of William Charles Rohleder B: 1836 who married Matilda Smith Waterson in 1858 at Bethnal Gr.
Other siblings of William & Charles were: Thomas (Tom) B:1823/24 and Ann B:1825/26
Their parents were John and Elizabeth Rohleder

Somewhere between 1836 and 1841 John R.. is out of the picture and Elizabeth R... is on the 1841 census as the wife of George Watts with one child, Mary Watts and her other four Rohleder children. Elizabeth RM George Watts 1839 Shoreditch.

Let's return to Charles William R...married to Eliza Charlton.
In 1861 Eliza was married but on her own raising four children, Charles, Thomas, Elizabeth and Mary Ann. It is possible that her husband Charles Wm. was in hospital as he died in 1866.
In 1871 still in Bethnal Green, we see Eliza as the wife of Frederick Boulton B: abt 1833 in Yorkshire. Occ:Leather Merchant. (I have not found their marriage) with them are the Rohleder children, Charles, Tom, Elizabeth, Mary Ann plus Elizabeth Harriet Rohleder Boulton age 2 born in Bethnal Gr.mmn.Charlton.
Hope this helps in some way and does not confuse things.
HAPPY HUNTING:sleuth_or_spy:

Sorry I don't know-stopped tracking Rohleders after Eliza Frances married my Great Grandfather John Shemeld

Hello-Thank you, you have confirmed everything I had which is very reassuring. I can only add Elizabeth was born Hamilton before she became a Rohleder and Frederick Boulton was born in Rotherham. All the different spellings of Rohleder and the incorrect transcribing make it so much more difficult. It didn't help that most could not read or write so couldn't help the recorder with the spelling