My father Albert Knowles Jnr was raised by Albert Knowles Snr (1900) and his wife Mary Emma (nee Marples, 1905). Albert and Mary Emma were married in Jan 1927 and I believe lived at 159 Fitzhubert Road at some point. In March 1928 an adoption registration was filed naming Albert Knowles Snr as the sole adopter of Albert Knowles Jnr (born Dec 1927). I find this baffling, why didn't Mary Emma adopt him too?

As far as I am aware they had no other children and later in life both Albert Snr and Mary Emma remarried. Albert Snr to Eliza Hodgkins and Mary Emma to Alfred C Spencer.

Does anyone know anything about this family? Would love to hear from you if you do.

Thanks and Regards

Jo

Jo, with regard to the adoption record. The Adoption Act of 1926 did not require both spouses to sign the paper, but they could if they both qualified. However a person under the age of 25 did not qualify so Mary Emma who was only 23 in 1928 was not legally allowed to adopt.
Do you have the divorce record for Albert and Mary Emma?
Dave

Hi Dave

Wow.. I didn't really expect a response, I thought it was a long shot that anyone could help. Thanks for getting in touch.

So that explains why Albert Snr was the only one on the adoption certificate. It makes sense now...

No, I don't have any records/information about their divorce. I am new to this and not sure where to look for divorce information. I have only just discovered The Sheffield Indexers... what an amazing website!

Thanks again, I really appreciate you taking the time to help.

Regards

Jo

Jo,
Albert remarried in 1941 and Mary Emma in 1955 (in her maiden name). Therefore they must have divorced in 1941 at the latest.
The Matrimonial Causes Act of 1937 significantly changed the very strict earlier divorce law, allowing much easier divorce. Acceptable grounds were minimum 2 yrs separation, abandonment, adultery, long term mental illness and a few less savoury reasons.
It is most likely that the divorce happened after this bill in 1937.
Dave
PS in an earlier thread on this site Angela gave details of divorce records at Kew. I have copied this below, verbatim (Thank you Angela)

Hi

I am not sure if you already know this.

Between 1858 and 1927 almost all divorce files survive. Between 1928 and 1937, the 80% of suits that were filed in the Central Registry are in J 77. The 20% of suits that were filed in the new district registries were destroyed (they are not indexed by J 78). After 1938, very few survive
The index is available online.
Many files contain marriage certificates. Later files (after 1938) may contain photographs.

I have accessed these files at Kew and the information was all there from the court case.

This should confirm that no divorce took place.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C9685

Angela

Hi

Albert and Mary were still living together when the 1939 Register was created so that gives a two year window, 1939-41, in which they must have divorced.

Carol

Thanks Dave, Carol and Angela (for the national archives tip)

I really appreciate your help... It's great to have the opportunity to learn from those who have a lot of experience. I did search the national archives for the divorce records but found nothing relevant.

My next move is to try and find out who my fathers birth parents were... I understand I have to go via a third party, an adoption agency? I have been in touch with my local council and they have given me the contact details for an agency that might be able to help. Although I did find a birth index for an Albert Knowles; Mar 1928; Manchester S; Mothers Name: Walker; Volume 8d Page 224... Is that a coincidence? I guess the only way I will find out is to get the birth certificate...

Thanks again everyone

Regards

Jo

Jo
You said your father was born in December 1927. Do you have the exact date please?
Dave

Hi Dave

9th December 1927

Regards

Jo

Jo, thanks. I was hoping to use that to get a short list of possibles. However it is proving too complicated, with no guarantee. Your only chance is tho go through the agency.
It does seem strange that a young couple would marry in early 1927 and decide to adopt only 12 to 15 months later. Did they know they could not have children?
Dave

Hi Dave

Thanks for trying, I really appreciate that. I know nothing of their circumstances and like you I found it strange. Initially I wondered if the child was born to one of Mary Emma's siblings or even to Mary Emma herself? Although that opens up all sorts of conjecture...

Another possibility is that the child was born to Albert Snr's sister whom as far as I can gather never married but I haven't found any evidence that supports this theory.

My research so far on Albert Snr and Mary Emma's subsequent second marriages hasn't shown any children either (numerous freeBMD searches).

I may take a chance and order the birth certificate for the ALbert Knowles born in Manchester in Dec 1927...

Do you think there is a chance that my fathers birthdate is incorrect? Would it have been changed to hide something perhaps? Or am I overthinking this now :-)

Thanks again

Regards

Jo

Jo, if you read the Adoption Act of 1926 and its update in 1928 you will understand the adoption reg better. The original birth date of the adoptee was usually registered on the publically availabl adoption record. The original birth name is only on the closed record,
The Manchester birth must be irrelevant. It is wrong time, wrong place , legitimate.
Most likely (but not definitely) is that he was born illegitimate to an unmarried girl and was then given up for adoption. The only certain way to get the info is to go through the adoption agency,, which will also presumably come at a price.
I agree that the later marriages produced no children, and that there were no children born to Albert and Mary Ellen.
Dave
Ps this adoption took place very early after the law first came into being. Therefore it is unlikely that Albert came from very far from Sheffield.

Dave

Once again thanks for your help. When I need something to help me sleep perhaps I will read the adoption act :grinning:

I thought I would contact Sheffield City Council and try to find out more through them, after all he was born there... Well... 6 phone calls later, a department actually picking up the phone and putting it down again without speaking to me, being put through to the wrong department twice and those answering my call in the first instance (a call centre I believe) not even knowing what adoption was!!.. It doesn't bode well...

Anyway, thanks again

Regards

Jo

Jo,
Based on the early adoption act there will be 3 different documents relevant to your father. They are:
1.An original birth cert under a name we do not know. This will have parents name(s) and date of birth, and a statement that he was adopted.
2. A n adoption record which contains his adopters names and his date of birth
3 A second birth cert which contains his original name and his new name.
You have number 2 and the difficult one to get, through court proceedings, is number 3. Number 1, in principle, is very difficult to find.
However, He was born on 9 th December 1927 so he cannot have been registered before that date. This allows to produce a fairly short list of potential birth records. I have found a simple way to get Free BMD search results into Excel , so an even shorter list can be generated.
Assuming he was born in Sheffield or Ecclesall Bierlow and that he was illegitimate the list gets very short. That even shorter list gets even shorter when individuals can be eliminated because they died shortly after birth or later married in the local area.
In fact, based on those assumptions I have reduced those possibilities to just one, who was registered in Sheffield in the 2 weeks around the 9 th December 1927, was illegitimate and I can find no trace of him in death or marriage records thereafter.
The next move would be to buy the cert, at a cost of £11 to see the date of birth.
It is Arthur F Couldwell registered Dec Quarter 1927 Sheffield 9c 942
Dave

.

Dave

Well.. I don't know what to say! Apart from how on earth did you work that out? However you did it I am very impressed and really appreciate the time and effort you have put in. Thank you.

I have ordered the certificate and will be in touch as soon as it arrives, that's if you don't mind...?

'who was registered in Sheffield in the 2 weeks around the 9th December 1927' How are you able to pinpoint the birth so accurately? Do you use any other sources of information other than freeBMD and The Sheffield Indexers?

Wow, I still don't know what to say... Thanks

Regards

Jo

Jo, Please let us know what you find
I trust you understand there is no guarantee. Any of the assumptions I made may be invalid, and the registration I found may have disappeared because he left the country.
I used only data from FreeBMD. The secret is in how to interrogate the data.
Dave

Dave

No worries... Although I hope you are right, it would be incredibly exciting to know where my dad came from, I do understand there is no guarantee...

Yes, I think I need more practice at searching the BMD data. I am on Ancestry UK at the moment and when I find inconsistencies between mine and other member trees I do some research/investigation because there is quite a lot of misinformation copied from tree to tree. Initially I want to satisfy myself that my tree is correct (that's not always the case of course :grinning: ) and secondly I want to try and stop incorrect information being copied/replicated. I really enjoy the investigation process it plays well to my logical way of thinking (I used to be a computer programmer).

As an aside... There are other members of my family who have been adopted and when I look them up on FreeBMD there are two entries for them, one stating the birth family name and the other stating their new family name. In these cases none of the forenames were changed.

Anyway, thanks again, I will be in touch soon.

Regards

Jo

Hello Jo, Dave et al,
Following up on Dave's assumption on this website, under Parish Records, is a birth record of:
ARTHUR FRANCIS COULDWELL B: 1st Nov.....? Bapt:7 Dec/1927 at Christ Church Attercliffe. Mother: Mary Jane....?

Under burials there is a record for:
MARY JANE COULDWELL (aka COLDWELL) Spinster age 71
Died at Wharncliffe Hospital
Buried Oct 3/1963 at City Road Cemetery

Given the above dates, Mary Jane would have been about 35/36 years old in 1927
Mary Jane was born to Frank Couldwell and Kate Irish in 1892
M.J. had at least two sisters and a brother by 1901. Interestingly, both sisters died quite young(26&32) and both were spinsters. Their deaths and her brother and parents are all recorded as being in the same grave at Burngreave Cemetery-Details over to your left on this website under burials.

There is another possible birth mother for Arthur F. Couldwell but her name is just Mary Couldwell born 12 March 1915 Sheffield (over to your left again under Parish Records) she would have been 12 in 1927.
HAPPY HUNTING:sleuth_or_spy:

Wendy, thanks for that. I am afraid that proves that my assumption was wrong because Jo's father was born 9 th December.
Sorry Jo
Dave

A slim chance:it is just possible that the birth reg , which I assume was a few days after the baptism, has different info.
I am clutching at straws.
Dave

Oh well it was worth a try :relaxed: Let's see what the certificate says when it arrives... If it is of no use to me it might be for someone else, it certainly won't be the first time I have ordered an incorrect certificate...

Thanks Dave and Wendy I really appreciate your help in finding my dad... :grinning: It's amazing what you can find out for free especially since this can be a very expensive business...

Thanks again

Regards

Jo

Jo,
My thanks to Vicki who has sent me the original record of the baptism of Arthur Francis Couldwell. It shows that his surname was first recorded as Stevens and that is crossed out and replaced by Couldwell. Also she points out that Arthur Frances Stevens is registered 9c p942, so he was double registered under two different surnames.
For my own benefit of checking the accuracy of my calculation of registration dates I would appreciate learning the actual registration date of the birth of Arthur Francis when get the cert..
It has been a useful learning exercise for me, which is some consolation.
Dave

Ok Dave, no worries. As soon as it arrives I will let you know.

Now that I have checked FreeBMD I can quite clearly see the two entries... Just like the double entries I found for other members of my family who were adopted (as I mentioned in an earlier post).

Regards

Jo

Hi

I was involved in the transcribing of the indexes for Sheffield Register Office.

Another scenario for a double registration is that the parents were not married. So the child was entered in the index under the father's surname and again under the mother's surname.

So not all double registrations were children who had been adopted.



Angela

Hi Angela

Thanks for your feedback. I have done some reading about double entries and it seems there are quite a few reasons why they exist...

I will try again to start the search through Sheffield City Council... Wish me luck, I think I am going to need it!

Regards

Jo

An update on trying to find my adopted father's birth mother/parents.

I am coming to the conclusion that there really is no other way to get the information I want without going through an intermediary...

I spoke to Adoptions at Sheffield City Council. They were actually very helpful but they do not offer intermediary services :expressionless:

I have tried my local authority... four phone calls in four weeks and I have been assured my case is on the system but it hasn't been allocated to anyone. In that time they have never once called me back when they have said they would... how frustrating!!! Should I expect anything more from a local authority, perhaps not these days... :scream:

I have also tried a couple of private adoption agencies only one has come back to me so far... Quote £500 - £2000 depending on the work involved/services required!! All donations welcome... Haha just kidding...!

Has anybody been through this process via an intermediary? Would be open to some advice...

Thanks

Jo

Jo,
I think there may be another much cheaper way. Not guaranteed but a very good chance.
As I said earlier, the rules of how adoption works indicates that somewhere out there is a birth certificate for a boy with birth date 9 dec 1927 and on that certificate it says he was adopted. How to find it at a cheaper cost than 500 to 2000 pounds?
I have checked my method of getting close to the registration date against a few of my ancestors' birth certs and it seems pretty good. It consistently gets within 10 days. Also it is very quick and simple to do from free bmd.
I have therefore made a few assumptions and pulled out all the Male births within those assumptions.
The assumptions are
1. He was born 9th dec 1927
2. he was registered by 20th January 1928, that is 42 days after his birthday, the max allowed before a fine was incurred.
3. He was registered in the Sheffield area, that is Sheffield, Ecclesall Bierlow, Rotherham and Wortley.
4. He was born illegitimate.

Based on this I have a short list of 26 records. I have made no attempt to reduce that list.There are some very unusual names amongst them, there is one John Smith and there is one set of twins
I am confident that if I turn that list over to our sleuths on here they will be able to reduce it to maybe 10 or possibly fewer. Note that purchasing 10 birth certs will cost £110 which is a lot less money than the intermediary and can be done quickly. Of course there is no guarantee that the assumptions are correct.
Will be happy to put the list up if you consider you might pursue it.
Dave
Ps, will be happy to modify the assumptions if anyone has any better suggestions. To generate the list is very quick and simple.

Hi Dave

You are such a star :star2: Thanks

I found out another piece of information about my dad (thanks to this site), when and where he was baptised...

Here is a list of events
15 Jan 1927 Albert Knowles Snr (14 Apr 1900) marries Mary Emma Marples (08 Dec 1905)

09 Dec 1927 'Albert Knowles' Jnr born

29 Jan 1928 'Albert Maurice Knowles' baptised at St John Park. Parents Albert & Mary Emma. The address given on the baptism record is the same address given on the adoption certificate, so it must be him.

23 Feb 1928 'Albert Knowles' Jnr adopted by Albert Knowles Snr

The name Maurice does not appear on any other paperwork and I am sure my father didn't know he was given a middle name when he was baptised because he never ever mentioned it. I have looked through the family history too and have found no mention of a Maurice, so I wonder if it is a nod to his real identity?

Do you have someone on your list called Maurice?

Regards

Jo

BINGO!!!!!!. And the first names fit as well
Birth Registration Wortley, March Quarter 1928 9c 590 ALBERT K MORRIS
That must be worth paying £11 for.
Dave

BINGO!!!!!! Indeed Dave...

Albert Knowles born to Edith Morris a Domestic Servant of 4 Heather Road Shiregreen, Sheffield. Born 9th Dec 1927 at Mount Pleasant Wisewood Ecclesfield. The only Mount Pleasant I can find is an 18th century mansion which according to Wikipedia was in Highfield. Anyone... any ideas?

No father named. Note on birth certificate says 'adopted'.

Clever you!! Thanks again I really appreciate the time and effort you have put in...

:grinning: :grinning:

I will send you a copy of the certificate by email

Regards

Jo

Jo, thanks for the feedback, and for the cert. Note that the birth was registered 2 days after he was baptised by Albert senior and Mary Emma. Also the registration was 12 days late, ie 54 days after the birth so presumably someone paid the fine.
Heather road Shiregreen still exists, google it.

If you want to invest another £11 I suggest you buy the birth cert for Terence T Marples born illegitimate in Chesterfield in q1 1941. I think there is a good chance that the mother may have been Mary Emma Marples. If it is that will confirm that the grounds for divorce was adultery on her part.
Dave

Hi Jo

If you look at this thread on SheffieldHistory it gives a little bit of detail about Mount Pleasant at Wisewood. Not much, but there is a map showing where it was and you might be able to search further.

https://www.sheffieldhistory.co.uk/forums/topic/6891-loxley-house-in-1841/

Denise

Hi Denise

Thanks for the link, I have had a look and I am assuming it's not the 18th century house I found described on Wikipedia?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Pleasant,_Sheffield

The address for the 18th century house is given as Sharrow Lane, Highfield... I don't know Sheffield at all and the place names mean nothing to me

Interestingly there is an Edith Morris on this site that went to Heeley Bank Girls School in 1911. She left in 1916 and the reason given for leaving is 'Sharrow Lane'... I wondered whether this was my fathers mother?


Dave, do you get a bonus for boosting the sales of birth certificates lol... Interesting theory about Mary Emma.

I know there were/are a lot of Marples in Sheffield could Terence just have been born to a Marples who married a Marples?

I have never heard any stories of an affair or a child but that doesn't mean it didn't happen... I will see what I can find out.

I have googled Heather Rd and it is now on my long list of places to see (if we get time) when we visit Sheffield in April.

Thanks for your help, I'll keep you posted about Terence...

Regards

Jo

Jo
between 1920 and 1950 there were only 2 Marples-Marples marriages in England and Wales. 1929 in Birkenhead and 1947 in Chelsea. Terence was definitely illegitimate.
There are 4 possible Edith Morris births for you to consider ( one illegitimate) and there are 3 possible marriages for her in 1930 to 1933, one of which is in Wortley, so the most likely.
Dave

Hi Jo


Yes Mount Pleasant is different to the 18th century House you found on on Wikipedia. Its across the city. From early census it looks like there were a few houses in the area that was called Mount Pleasant - mostly occupied by farm/agricultural workers and miners, even though the 1850 map shows a single largish dwelling (but that could have been a farm)

Not sure what would have still been there in 1927.

The name of Mount Pleasant seems to have been lost since then as its just part of Wisewood now.

Denise

Thanks Denise for the additional information... It's all really interesting :grinning:

Thanks Dave...

I did see the marriage to William Thomas in 1932 and wondered whether that could be her...

As for births, I can see the 1902 entry 9c 341 in Wortley. There is an earlier one in 1893 but I think that makes her too old... And a later one in 1916 which surely has to make her way too young...

It seems Edith Morris was quite a popular name... I have found another 2 possibilities in Eccleshall Bierlow, 1902 and 1906. And, there is another one I mentioned in an earlier post (found on this site) born Oct 1904. That is about as far as my limited knowledge of Sheffield and how to interrogate FreeBMD and other free sources goes.

As for Terence, I am curious... I think I might well be utterly shocked if you are right. Anyway, in for a penny, in for £11. I will order the certificate.

Regards

Jo

Hi Jo,

Snip.

""Albert Knowles born to Edith Morris a Domestic Servant of 4 Heather Road Shiregreen, Sheffield. Born 9th Dec 1927 at Mount Pleasant Wisewood Ecclesfield.""

I am currently transcribing Christ Church of Hillsborough & Wadsley Bridge......

There is a Mount Pleasant Road there to the back of the Church going up towards Parson Cross/Shiregreen. Opposite side of the Valley to Wisewood. BUT I think that is a red herring as I believe you stated.

The Alan Godfrey Map of 1905 does not show the name of Mount Pleasant which I take to mean they were just building it. There are a few houses on the street only.

Just a suggestion if you are not in Sheffield it might be worth your while to obtain a current map of Sheffield and one of these Alan Godfrey maps. They really help when researching an area you are not familiar with.

Hope this helps.

Elaine in Ottawa.

PS after trying to find Mount Pleasant on a current map the only one I could find was in the Sharrow area. I believe the one at Wadsley Bridge must have changed its name. I am leaning towards that one.

Maybe some of you map people can help more.

Instant Messenger: Skype

Hi Jo

Bit more info...

If you look at Mount Pleasant on the 1850 map I sent you the link for, you'll see its marked along the bottom of a triangle shaped piece of land. The road running along the bottom is 'Loxley Road' and the road running up the left side is 'Studfield Hill'.

Both of these roads still exist and if you go to Google Streetview and look at the very bottom of Studfield Hill (effectively the corner of the traingle) you can just see a larger dwelling next to some old cottages. These cottages look old so certainly could have been there in 1927 ?? (and fit with the types of dwellings on the early census records) . Im wondering if the larger detached dwelling to the right of the cottages was built on the site of whatever the building was on the 1850 map, as its the last house (or first) house on that 'triangle'?

Back of cottages and house looking from Studfield Hillhttps://www.google.com/maps/@53.4044492,-1.5288613,3a,75y,143.4h,87.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sYfn2RNimy3xynkor4uu8-w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Front of larger dwelling looking up from Loxley Road
https://www.google.com/maps/@53.4042162,-1.5288727,3a,75y,338.1h,97.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1scyYQj8NjZ9_TN3O40Vm5vA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

View of cottages from Loxley Road
https://www.google.com/maps/@53.4042121,-1.5284173,3a,75y,337.43h,90.84t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sc3KJ0_OjvPwvbF2_XGpP-A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Everything else along both Loxley Road and Studfield Hill that border the 'triangle' are all much newer properties. And thats when I think the name of 'Mount Pleasant' might have been lost?

Doesnt get you any nearer in your search I'm afraid but hope it helps to 'set the scene' if you look at any other maps!

Denise

Just to muddy the waters more......

If you look at our baptisms search and just enter the address of Mt Pleasant there are a number of them....

Elaine in Ottawa.

Instant Messenger: Skype

I believe I can clear the waters a little.
As Elaine says the baptisms show a few different Mount Pleasants around Sheffield. The marriages and burials add to that.
The Mount Pleasant we are looking for is definitely at Wisewood (birth certificate) and the birth was registered in Wortley. Therefore we can eliminate any Mount Pleasant outside the Wortley reg district. Therefore Fulwood and Sharrow Road are eliminated.
That leaves Mount Pleasant Wadsley and Mount Pleasant Farm, which seems to be the one in the triangle shown in the earlier link from Denise. That map was from 1855 and shows just one building. On the 1841 census , again shown in the earlier link from Denise, the enumerator goes from Wisewood cottage to Loxley House then to Mount Pleasant, where he finds several houses.
I have an ordnance survey map from 1844 and that shows Mount Pleasant just slightly north of west from Wadsley, and there are several houses there in 1844.
Just one mile south of that, in Wisewood, is that triangular piece of land a few hundred yards north of the river Loxley , There is no building on that plot in 1844.
Therefore we can conclude that the Mount Pleasant in the 1841 is different from the one in Wisewood. The route taken by the enumerator was north from Wisewood Cottage to Loxley House then north again to Mount Pleasant just west of Wadsley.
The farm building on the triangle of land in Wisewood did not exist in 1844 but it had appeared by 1855 and was clearly still there in 1927, and even into the 1940s, as Mount Pleasant Farm. As Denise found, it may still exist
I think that the nomenclature, and therefore the confusion, is probably caused by the topography.
If you stand on the river Loxley in Wisewood and look north you are looking up a steep hill towards Mount Pleasant about one mile away. Was that the name of the hill originally? A few hundred yards up on that line is that triangle of land, which if it was a farm, would logically be called Mount Pleasant Farm, and it would be in Wisewood
Interestingly, in 1925 a John Henderson was born at Mount Pleasant Farm, father John Duncan Henderson, a professional golfer. Unfortunately he seems to have been an only child so no indication they were still there in 1927 when Albert Knowles Morris was born there.
Dave

Thanks everyone for your contributions I really appreciate you all taking the time to help...

Elaine has suggested I get a map... Good idea Elaine! Why didn't I think of that :grinning:

Have looked for the 1905 map suggested by Elaine but can only find a North Sheffield one, is that the one? It seems there are a lot of Alan Godfrey maps covering much of Sheffield in small detailed blocks. Most of them seem to be about 1903. Would I be wasting my money buying these when I am actually interested in the lay of the land in the late 1920's? If they are still relevant which ones should I invest in?

Thanks again

Jo

Hi

The 1939 Register for 4 Heather Road shows Edith MORRIS b 1893, living with her elder married sister Mary ELLIS

I have passed this information to Jo along with other relevant family BMD & Census records so just posting this to stop duplication of research time

Vicki

Jo, I have sent you an email with map. Copied to Elaine and Denise
Dave

Hi all

Thanks for the map Dave (and brilliant piece of deduction !!). I'm now thinking that, in the link I sent Jo initially from Sheffield History where the thread was looking for Mount Pleaseant, they have also got the Mount Pleasants mixed up (and mixed up the census and maps as you deduced).

Annoying that there doesnt seem to much written about either - on with the search!

Update: Just looked on GoogleStreetView matching with your map Dave and it looks like what was Mount Pleasant is now Hillsborough Golf Club (or the fields adjacent) - I think ??. The Golf Club website says it was established in 1920 though, so even more confused!

Denise

Once again, thanks everyone for your valued input... I really appreciate you taking the time and effort to assist me in my research...

As for Albert Jnr, the plot thickens!! An update to follow later...

Jo,
It was good to learn that following the discovery of your father’s birth cert you have made contact with a living relative and that you will get photos of your father’s real parents, along with family history. We know you are over the moon.
Denise and I have put our heads together to solve the mystery of the declared place of birth of your father, which was Mount Pleasant Wisewood, and the Reg district for the birth was Wortley (all from Birth Cert). There were, and still are, lots of different Mount Pleasants in the Sheffield area.
Following from Elaine’s suggestion of looking at baptismrecords on the site we checked the BMD, for people living anywhere near Wisewood, which is an area on the River Loxley north west of Sheffield, and who said they were from Mount Pleasant.
There were lots of records for Mount Pleasant Road Wadsley and several for Mount Pleasant farm Wadsley, and even for Mount Pleasant Chapeltown, We can identify those places on maps and they are a long way from Wisewood. However 2 weddings and 2 births stood out as the participants being from Mount Pleasant LOXLEY, and they were in the late 1920s, early 1930s. Wisewood is right next to Loxley.
One of those families was in the 1911 census living at Mount Pleasant Loxley WISEWOOD, and the adjacent 1911 records showed there were 3 more families with the same in their address. The other properties around it were also identified. Moving on to the 1901 census all those other properties are there and we can plot the enumerator’s route from Wadsley on the river Don down to WISEWOOD on the River Loxley, including two water wheels on that river. We could also identify from BMD on the site plenty of people in the 1920s and 30s living in all those places,
Denise visited the Sheffield Archives to look up a little known but wonderful, colour coded, very large-scale map of the area (from 1864 with additions in 1885) and many of the places were identified, including (the icing on the cake) MOUNT PLEASANT just above the word WISEWOOD. Using other means (including Hawkeye Denise spotting on Googlemaps a name-stone inset on Overblow House, essentially next door westward of Mount Pleasant) we pinpointed the names of other buildings around it to make complete sense of the 1901 census route. That included THORNWELL BANK, which was next door to the east.
Finally ( the cherry on top) Denise spotted a 1901 photograph in a book at the archives which identifies, on Loxley Road, THORNWELL BANK and there is a very clear view on that photo of the block of 4 cottages we have absolutely identified as your Mount Pleasant.
Unfortunately, because of copyright we cannot publish the map or the picture from the archives. However the same photo is on Picture Sheffield (but with no info about the building identity):
https://www.picturesheffield.com/frontend.php?keywords=Ref_No_increment;EQUALS;t05809&pos=67&action=zoom&id=93305

The building to the front right is Thornwell Bank (no longer exists) and the building at centre, above the carter’s head, is Mount Pleasant, Wisewood. Your father was born in one of those 4 houses.
Denise already provided a google maps link to those existing houses. Here it is again:

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.4042121,-1.5284173,3a,75y,337.43h,90.84t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sc3KJ0_OjvPwvbF2_XGpP-A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

When you visit Sheffield in the near future you will be able to go to the place where your grandmother and her family were living when your father was born.
If you want to knock on doors, be aware that you will have to climb many steps, unless you go to the back doors on Studfield Road.
Dave and Denise

Wow, thank you so much... That is so exciting, I will definitely be visiting. How amazing!!!

I want to take another opportunity to say to everyone THANK YOU SO MUCH... You have all worked so hard to identify my Dad's birth mother, her family and where they lived.

I amazed at the level of support I have had and as you say Dave I am 'over the moon'...

In reality I never I thought I would find out anything about his situation at birth but I have so much information now I am still trying to digest and make sense of it all!

It has been fascinating and somewhat surprising (is that an understatement lol?). Anyway as soon as I have the last of the BMD certificates I will update you with the final chapter… Unless, of course, the findings uncover more intrigue!... I think I should write a book!

Thank you Dave, Vicki, Denise, Elaine, Angela, Carol and Wendy (I thinks that's everyone :grinning: ) I could not have done it without you...

Regards

Jo