I am looking for any information about a business operating in Sheffield in the late 1800's. Maker of cabinet-maker tools all of which were stamped W. Kent, Sheffield. Holder of at least one Patent - Number 14734, I believe this business was NOT William Kent MARPLES. W Kent (probably William) was probably a cabinet maker who made a range of hand tools as well as furniture. The above referenced patent if for a mortice gauge.

Andrew, do you have a copy of the patent? Do you know the year of the granting of the patent?
Dave

Hi Andrew,

I can't find any newspaper advertisement for this company.

1891 census, 37 Mitchell Street, Sheffield.
William H. Kent, 22, Cabinet case maker, born Lincs.
With him are his wife and son.

1901 census, 37 Arthur Street, Sheffield.
William H. Kent, 32, Cabinet case maker, born South Willingham, Lincs.
With his are wife Elizabeth and sons William Hy. 11, Percy 9 and Leonard 7.

The only other one in 1891 is Willam Kent, 29, Joiners tool maker, born Sheffield.
With him is wife Annie aged 25.

Moira.

Hi Andrew

It might be worth you contacting 'The Hawley Collection' in Sheffield, which is an extensive collection of information on tools and tool manufacturers in Sheffield.

http://www.hawleytoolcollection.com/.

And I found this (which you've probably already found in your search), on a page selling a Spirit Level made by W Kent.

'W. KENT wasone of the smaller tool companies in Sheffield during the late 1800s.

Examples of their work are therefore relatively scarce unlike Rabone or Marples who produced in greater numbers'

Which looks to confirm your thinking that Kent and Kent Marples were separate companies!

Denise

Hello Denise

Thank you for your reply - I am quite amazed at the 3 responses I've received and so quickly.

I will contact the Hawley Collection - I didn't think of that source though I have contacted them once previously!

My sincere thanks.

Regards

Andrew

Hello Moira

Thank you for your reply and information - I am quite amazed at the 3 responses I've received - and so quickly.

The William H Kent is interesting and I shall research him further; however, it is your last reference that is exciting - William Kent and wife Annie. I will need to do some more searching; however, I am reasonable sure that this is actually William Frederick Kent who was married to Jane Elizabeth Ann - always known as Annie. The ages and occupation match. If correct then these are my great Grandparents. The caveat of course is that William and Annie were fairly common names of married Kents in England.

Thank you for your research and information - it is greatly appreciated.

Regards

Andrew

Hello Dave

Thank you for your reply - I am amazed at the fast response to my post!

I am a tool collector in Australia. As I posted earlier, almost all information sources relating to tools and especially those from Sheffield regard tools with W. Kent stamped on them as being made by William Kent Marples.

But! (I love that word). I am an Australian and come from a line of cabinet makers/wood turners. Family lore is that this vocation goes back many generations in England. So I have collected quite a range of cabinet makers tools bearing the stamp W. Kent. Despite lots of searching - particularly in the past few years - I haven't found anything concrete so-to-speak to confirm my thoughts. Until last week. I came across a reference to William Kent in Sheffield with Patent 14734 stamped on a mortice gauge. I contacted the person who put up the reference and he said he believed said W. Kent operated on his own in Sheffield for only a few years around the 1880's, and he understood that the Patent was around 1895. This source tells me that W. Kent ceased trading in 1899.

I have sent a request off to the British Library Business and Intellectual Property Reference Service asking for advice about finding a copy of the Patent. I am hoping that in the next week I will receive appropriate advice. British Patents are not easy to access from Australia - compared to United States Patents which are easily and openly available on-line.

I will post further information when it comes to hand.

Again, my sincere thanks for you interest.

Regards

Andrew

Andrew, in the latter half of the nineteenth century British patents had a numbering system which began again each year, this means that the number you quoted is likely to occur in many different years, certainly the number itself, without its year, cannot be used to imply a year of granting. However if you find that patent in the name of Kent then you will get further info.
Presumably your great grandparents moved to Australia around the end of the nineteenth century. Do their death certificates give any info which may help us to identify the family line in Sheffield?
Dave

Hello Dave

Thank you for your information - much appreciated.

I have a lot of Kent history on another computer which I will access tomorrow; however, William and Annie Kent came to Australia in the late 1800's - I think the ship was the Genghis Khan though I'm not sure where they landed. Some information suggests Adelaide. They went to Ipswich in Queensland though their children (my Grandfather and siblings) lived in Maryborough in Queensland.

I will post accurate details when I access my other database.

Regards

Andrew

Hello again Dave

I forgot to add: I understand the patent was from about 1888. I understand that W. Kent ceased business in Sheffield around 1899.

Regards

Andrew Kent

Hi Andrew,

Appologies, the 1891 census I mentioned earlier with William and Annie is
actually Walter and Annie.

Moira.

Hello Moira

Thank you for the update.

Regards

Andrew

Andrew,
A search of the Census file on Find My past (FMP)using the terms Kent as surname and Joiners Tool in the optional keyword field gives just 9 answers and they seem to be one family, and they lived in Sheffield. They were father Thomas born 1826 in Walsall , sons Herbert Willie born 1860 and Walter born 1862, both in Sheffield. Both sons were in the 1911 census and were still Joiners Tool makers.
Thomas, Herbert Wand Walter all died in Sheffield.
You should consider that the W Kent on your mortise guage could have been Walter.
Dave
Edit, Walter died age 74 in 1936 in Sheffieeld

Hello Dave

Thank you for the update. Lots more searching to do - and not easy from The Great South Land!

Regards

Andrew

Andrew, the patent number you quoted does not make any sense. Are you sure that the number you quoted is a patent number?
Is it stamped on the article?, and if so is it said to be a patent number?
May I suggest that you contact the email below for some free advice from professional patent searchers in London. If appropriate you will be able to ask them to go to look in the patent Office ( though that would be for a fee but you would be told how much up front).
Dave

Info@londonip.co.uk.

Edit, just found an Excel file from IPO published 2015 under freedom of info act. It gives statistics of UK patents published by year fron 1820 to 2015.. From 1852 to 1899 the biggest number in any year was 14465 and that was in 1897 Your number is 14734. As I said earlier , in those years the numbering started again each new year, so between 1852 and 1899 there never was a number 14734. In fact, if that is a genuine British patent number then the only possibility is 1901., because a continuous numbering system started in 1900, and in that year there were just under 140000.

Hi dave

I've found this on ebay - so it may (or may not) be the same thing Andrew is talking about and where his information has come from?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rare-Maker-ANTIQUE-WOODEN-MORTICE-GAUGE-W-Kent-Sheffield-Patent-14734-c1895-/223498838851.

Denise

Denise, well found. I had seen it but had not earlier spotted the extra 3 photos which clearly show the W. KENT SHEFFIELD on one side and the PATENT 14734 on the other. I also note that the fixing mechanism(a wedge rather than a wooden screw) is very unusual for this type of instrument. Presumably that is the inventive step which was the subject of the patent application.
Adding to my earlier arguments, which dealt with GRANTED patent numbers, I suppose it is just feasible that the number is actually a patent APPLICATION number, and it was never granted..
Andrew will need the patent search experts to sort that out.
Dave

Andrew, sorry, i need to correct myself about patent numbers. I have found a much more authoritative source of accurate info (never trust Wikipedia)
See this url, which is definitive

https://www.fiddlebase.com/patents-1/british-patents-1852-1915/

Below is verbatim from the same source (my capitals)

"In the period 1852 (from 1 October) to 1915 PATENT APPLICATIONS FILED were numbered starting at 1 each year; GRANTED PATENT APPLICATIONS RETAINED THE SAME NUMBER. Because of this regular repetition of numbers, it is very important to give the year as well as the "number" when investigating a patent; it may not be possible to help you if you cannot supply this information, but include anything you do know, such as manufacturer/inventor name and the nature of the item bearing a patent number......
Until 1 January 1884 (nearly) all patent APPLICATIONS were published, but from that date generally only those GRANTED were published."

SO, your patent number could be from any year between 1884 (when the number of applications first became bigger than your number) and 1915 (inclusive). Your number occurred in EVERY ONE of those years as an APPLICATION. The patent may or may not have been GRANTED.If it was an application that was not granted then it was not published so in those circumstances you will not find it.

The new, continuous numbering system started in 1916, and went past 16000 in that year so 1916 is also possible.
Sorry about my earlier errors, but as you can see it is quite complex.
I note that your seller on eBay says that the number IMPLIES a date of 1888. That statement is definitely untrue. The only way to get a definitive year is to find the published patent
Dave

Hello Dave

The Mortice Gauge you found on Ebay is one I bought! Yes, it clearly shows W. Kent Sheffield and patent 14734. Other research I have done seems to validate this Patent marking but I am waiting on definitive proof! Yes, British Patents can be difficult to both find and to interpret.
I can tell you about some hand planes made in England, probably by the famous cutlers Wingfield Rowbottom. Some of their (uncommon) planes are cast with 'Patent No 7855' on the lever cap. Other similar planes have simply '7855' impressed or cast in relief. To complicate matters, Marples also made a similar plane but without the patent appearing anywhere. I eventually discovered that this patent was an Application number which either lapsed or was withdrawn - and the Patent Office published lists from time to time with tables of these. I think the patent did not proceed because of the similarities to the American Bailey Defiance planes. BUT! Which came first - Bailey's or Patent 7855 - the research continues! Nobody knew about this til I unearthed it. Similarly there is a British-made Saw Set marked 'Tricketts Patent Saw Set'. This tool is actually patented and I have tracked the document down.

W. Kent (?Walter ?William) remains an enigma, though thanks to you all on Sheffield Indexers I think we'll solve this!!

Again, my sincere thanks for your ongoing help.

Regards

Andrew

Andrew,
Here are a few facts which may help with the enigma.
If you look over to the left on this site there are various files which you can search. In particular you should use the Directories, Parish Burials and 1841 Census. Using these and 1881 census data (free to use on FindmyPast), a site called Free BMD and the GRO Index(free to use on line) it is possible to get a detailed family history for Walter Kent.

He was born in 1862, father Thomas Kent. Walter, his brother Herbert Willie (b 1860) and Thomas (b 1824 Walsall, died 1888 Sheffield) were all Joiners Tool makers. In 1841 Thomas was with his parents William and Elizabeth Kent in Carver St Sheffield, along with sisters Margaret (b 1826) and Bertha (b 1820). Margaret was born in Sheffield so the family must have arrived in Sheffield between Thomas’ birth (1824) and Margaret’s birth (1826). William Kent of Carver St was a scissor and shear smith (directories). So Thomas lived on Carver Street and did not follow his father’s trade. Instead he trained in Joiners Tool making. The directories show Joseph Marples, Joiners tool manufacturer in CARVER Street at the same time. That is a big coincidence. William Kent (born 1784) died in Carver Street in 1851 and is buried at St Pauls Sheffield. Both Walter (died 1937 and Herbert Willie (died 1931) ran greengrocer/grocer shops as well as their Joiners tool making.

The Registry of trademarks of the Cutlers Company, Sheffield for 1919 has an official trade mark, which looks remarkably like, but subtly different from, your W. KENT mark. By 1919 that mark was in the ownership of William Marples and Co, cutlery maker. The link below takes you to a picture of that official mark (it is not possible to post pictures on here).

https://www.dropbox.com/s/g5pddc8namuszku/Wm%20Kent%20Trade%20Mark.png?dl=0

I wonder if it was Walter using a slight modification to his grandfather’s mark?
You can find the complete history of that mark (applicant, date and registered use) if you contact the Cutlers Company by email. The archivist there is usually very helpful.
Good Luck
Dave

Hello Dave

All I can say is Wow! Thank you for your research - I really appreciate it.

I came across Sheffield Indexers in an obscure search and posted my original 'request'. I was not aware that I can search through the various fields, so I think I have lots of searching to do.

I will post any information I receive concerning my search for the Patent documents.

Again, many thanks to you and fellow Indexers who have taken the time to help me out. Much appreciated.

Regards

Andrew

Hello Dave

Because of the Carver Street address, it is possible that Marples supplied tools to Walter Kent to sell together with his own products. Marples was famous for supplying tools unmarked to 'dealers' and others who on-sold these, usually with their own marks impressed. The fact that one of Marples' sons was William Kent Marples may explain why tools with the W. Kent mark have long been assumed to be 'seconds' marked thusly by Marples before sale.

More interesting research to be done. My theory that W. Kent was NOT a Marples may be true. Or perhaps and more probably - there were 2 lines of tools: one line sold by Walter and marked W. Kent with lettering in a straight line as per the Mortice Gauge mentioned previously (which I own), and a second line sold by Marples all Marked with 'W. Kent' with the letters in a arc.

Regards

Andrew

Hello Dave

I had just sent my last email to you when I received a response from the UK relating to my Patent search. Attached was a copy of the Patent and it is very interesting.

The Patent 14734 is headed: A.D. 1885, 1st December. No. 14734. 'Improvements in the Construction of Marking, Cutting, and Mortice Gauges'. The Patent begins: "I, Joseph Marples Dronfield Hill Top, Unstone in the county of Derby Joiners Tool Manufacturer do hereby etc. etc." It was submitted by Robert F. Drury, Agent for the Applicant on the 27th day of November, 1885.

So, perhaps Walter was making tools but rightly marking them with the still-current patent. Or perhaps Walter bought tools from Marples with 'Patent No. 14734' already stamped on them, and then he added his own W. Kent imprint.

Isn't research interesting.

Many thanks

Regards

Andrew

Andrew,
Great news you found the patent, and what a twist in the tale that gives.
The same sources of information I mentioned earlier can be quickly and easily used to define William Kent Marples.
He was the son of William Marples and his wife Jane nee Kent They married in 1830 iDronfield.. This William Marples was a joiners tool maker in Sheffield. See the directories to the left.. He was a different Wlilliam to the one referred to earlier who owned the registered trade mark
Wm KENT in 1919.
I have to add that if I had been the owner of that registered mark I would have accused the person who marked your gauge of infringement of Mark. Perhaps the circular one may avoid infringement.
It may be worth searching Sheffield newspapers (available on FMP) to see if there was any litigation about the mark.
I believe we have opened up a new and fruitful area of research for you, and hope it helps you to move further forward.
If you have any other questions please post again, we are always prepared to help.
Dave

Hi Andrew

Looks like Joseph Marples was a branch of the Marples family and the business still exists.

https://www.marples.co.uk/about-joseph-marples.html.

It might be worth contacting the 'current' Joseph (Joseph Anthony) to see if he can help further?

Denise

Hello Dave

Sincerest thanks for your information - certainly has added considerable paths to establishing who was who in the Kent tool-making line. Of course it's very possible that Walter was related to Jane who married into the Marples family decades earlier!

Regards

Andrew

Hello Denise

Thank you for following this through. Yes Marples still exists and I must contact them with some questions I have.

Many thanks

Regards

Andrew

Hi Andrew

Just realised i've stated somewhat the obvious that Marples still exists (as you already knew)!! So confusing with 7 different 'Marples' all being Tool manufacturers and all being related in some way, but seemingly operating independently! But fascinating looking at the history of it all and the fact that what seems to be the larger company - William Marples & sons - eventually became subsumed by another company - but Joseph Marples and his descendants held on to their company and the Marples trading name.

I also wondered if W Kent could be related to Jane. This could be of interest to me personally as I have a Jane Kent in my family tree. I havent done much on my Jane Kent (as in any marriages) but a quick look at the census records for Willian and Janes Marples would put that Jane and my Jane Kent around the same age - so you never know. This has spurred me on to look at my Jane Kent so I'll let you know if I find anything!

Denise

Hello Denise

My thoughts exactly. I will not be at all surprised if Walter Kent is related to Jane Marples nee Kent.

It is classically English that names flow down through the generations. So my sister's name is Jane!! The comes down from Jane Elizabeth Ann Cane who married William Frederick Kent in 1886.

So although probably not the same line of Kents at least in the mid to late 1800's, there may be relationships in earlier times.

I will be interested to hear of your findings on your relative Jane Kent!

Regards

Andrew

Hi Denise and Andrew,
I do not have subs which allow me detailed access to censuses and parish baptisms.
Hoeever I can see that there is a distinct possibility that Jane Marples nee Kent b.1808 was the older half sister of Thomas Kent the father of Walter.
If that is true then their common father William Kent b 1784 should be the one who applied for the Cutlers company for a trade mark, presumably to make Scissors etc.
Jane would have been 16 or 17 when William and his family moved to Sheffield in 1824/5
Dave

Oops, I have to correct myself again.
Just realised that the Thomas Kent who was father of Walter was NOT the same Thomas who was son of William in the 1841 census in CarverStreet. The Thomas who was father of Walter was in his birth town of Walsall in 1841 AND 1851, and the Thomas who was in Carver Street in 1841 with father William was born in Sheffield in 1826, and his older sister was born in Sheffield in 1819 (see baptisms to the left).
The name Kent was very common in Staffordshire.
Sorry for the error
Dave

Andrew, the free weekend on Fmp has allowed me to get more definitive info about Walter KENT and the Marples generally. You can see all this yourself on Fmp, but before midday uk time on Monday
Thomas Kent, father of Walter, was born 1824 in Walsall. He was with his father Walter in Walsall in 1841 census. In 1851 he was in Sheffield as a lodger and was a Tool maker
He married in 18454 in Sheffield and he is in all the subsequent censuses as a Tool Maker.
The Thomas Kent who was in Carver St in 1841 with his father William, died age 22 in 1848.
Jane Marples nee Kent was in all the censuses before her death, and was consistentlyy said to have been born in Sheffield in 1808.
Her husband William Marples employed 23 men in 1851.
Joseph Marples, tool maker, probably Williams brother, married in Birminghamin the 1820s and lived there having a family until he moved to Sheffield by 1861. He died in 1878. His oldest son Joseph was with him, unmarried, in 1871 and they employed one boy at that stage.
Dave

Hello Dave

Thank you for the information. I will have to get onto FMP, though I have had some problems occasionally because I am accessing the site from Australia. This shouldn't be a problem I reckon; however, sometimes the electrons don't line up!

Regards

Andrew