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burial

I am looking for details about my maternal grandmother annie/anna wilson nee mcmahon,i have tried different sites but had no luck ,she was born on the15/01/1877 ,her parents are bridget and john mcmahon .she married an henry wilson in1906 ,my mother was born on the 29th september 1913.i hope someone can help.kath

Re: burial

Hi,


Birth REG.

MCMAHON, ANN MMN LYNCH
GRO Reference: 1877 M Quarter in SHEFFIELD Volume 09C Page 465

Baptism.
McMahon, Anna (of ~, born 1877-01-15).
Baptised January 17, 1877, by J. Fitzgerald at St Vincents, Sheffield Centre.
Parents name(s) are Bridgidae Lynch & Joannis ().



Marriage. from FreeBMD
Marriages Jun 1906
McMAHON Annie Sheffield 9c 1137
Wilson Henry Sheffield 9c 1137

Death.
Sep 1922
Wilson Annie E 45 Sheffield 9c 447

Not finding the burial.

Elaine in Ottawa.




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Re: burial

Hi Kath

I see you've put a post on Sheffield Forum looking for help, where you give a little bit more information which will help us in the search.

You mention there that your mother was brought up by an aunt and that your brother has someone in Spain helping with the family tree, but who also has struggled to find your Grandmothers death/burial. So just to expand on that and try and narrow things down a bit:

- Was your mother brought up by an aunt because your grandmother died when she was young, or because they were separated (for whatever reason)? Was the Aunt on the Paternal or Maternal side?

- Any idea what area of Sheffield your grandparents lived in when your mother was born?

- Do you know what happened to your Grandfather Henry - did he also die when your mother was young or was he separated from your Grandmother?

Any other bit of information you have will help us!!

Denise

Re: burial

Just to add to Denise's questions.

What was your mothers first name?

I believe I found Annie on the 1911 census and she wasn't with her husband. I will have to re trace my steps on that one.

Could that 1922 death be her? Might be a good idea to purchase that death certificate to either rule her in or out.

Elaine in Ottawa.

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Re: burial

Hi Elaine ,I found out when our grandmother was born and baptised,and the marriage in 1906 but have never been able to find out when and where she died or where she is buried, our mother was born on the 29th september 1913,although there is no father on her birth certificate ,she died 22nd september 1977.and all we knew was that she was brought up by a maternal aunt.she had an older sister who was born in 1898also called Anna/annie who my mother didn't know much about she seemed to think she joined the carmalite nuns..thank you for the information. Kath

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Hi Elaine my mothers name is Kathleen, i will purchase the death certificate. Kath

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That death record for Annie e Wilson died Sept Q 1922. The burial is on this site over to the left. She was wife of GEORGE so it looks like she is not who you are looking for .
Dave

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Might be an idea down the road.......


https://carmelitenuns.uk/our-carmels/sheffield-carmelite-monastery/

I would hold off until we can establish more about your Annie Wilson.

Elaine in Ottawa.

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Re: burial

Hi Denise We have no idea why our mother was brought up by an aunt,the aunt was on the maternal side,i think it may have been an aunt called Catherine King.our mother was born in the work house,grandmothers address was the workhouse for 1 month,also Solly street where she was brought up..there is no father on our mothers birth certificate.our grandmother married Henry Wilson 1906.If you read the message from Elaine,i am going to apply for the death certificate,if it is our grandmother then i will continue to search for where she is buried. Kath

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Hi Dave thanks for that i have looked on this site and have never been able to find her although i have found great grandmother and other members of the McMahon family buried in the catholic cemetery in rivilin.Kath

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Morning Dave,

I know my eyesight is questionable these days but I am not turning that 1922 burial up.LOL.

Could you find it again and then I can see why its not coming up for me. I had looked yesterday and today.

Thanks

Elaine.

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Re: burial

Dawn,There is a burial on this site for Henry Wilson age 30, edge tool striker, who died in 1910 Ecclesall UNION. Most likely the husband.

Elaine, I just searched for Annie E* and Wilson ( maybe the asterisk is necessary!!!!)
Dave

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From GRO index, Annie McMahon born illegitimate q1 1898 Sheffield. That must be the sister.
Dave

Re: burial

k worrall
Hi Denise We have no idea why our mother was brought up by an aunt,the aunt was on the maternal side,i think it may have been an aunt called Catherine King.our mother was born in the work house,grandmothers address was the workhouse for 1 month,also Solly street where she was brought up..there is no father on our mothers birth certificate.our grandmother married Henry Wilson 1906.If you read the message from Elaine,i am going to apply for the death certificate,if it is our grandmother then i will continue to search for where she is buried. Kath
Hi Kath

Thanks for filling in the gaps.

While searching I've come across a catholic baptism which looks like your mum:

Catherina (Latin form of kathleen/Cathleen) Wilson, Born 29 Sep 1913, baptised 30 Oct 1913 at St Vincents Church.

Father - Henricus
Mother - Anna McMahon

Cant see the original so no further detail but interesting as theres no fathers name on your mums birth cert.

Also found the baptism for the older sister Annie/Anna in 1898:

Anna McMahon born 23 Feb 1898, Baptised 23 March 1898 at St Vincents
Father - blank
Mother - Annae

Denise

Re: burial


Hi Dave.


I did it again without the * LOl

Elaine.

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Re: burial

Hi Denise ,Ihave copies of both the birth certificates, and as you say there are no fathers named on either. Kath

Re: burial

Hi Kath/Denis,

I retraced my steps from yesterday and re checked the 1911 census out.

Annie Wilson aged 33 a Silver Buffer born in Sheffield

She was a Visitor in the household of James & Frances Carey. Tipton St, Brightside.
No marital status mentioned.

I then checked back to the 1901 census where she was at home with her Widowed father John and siblings.143 Solly St is the address.

Whats interesting is her occupation which matches the 1911 census a Buffer.

Annie McMahon aged 24 Spoon & Fork Buffer
also Maggie McMahon aged 22
Annie aged 3 (Gran Dau) McMahon.

March qtr 1898 Sheffield 9c 601 MMN - so illigitimate.

All of this is not getting us any nearer to Annie (1877) death but it at least fills in details that may help us.

Going back to the Carmelites there is only one nunnery in Sheffield and thats at Bradfield. As a Wilson researcher myself from the area there are many but I also have Helliwells in the tree from Bradfield. Nothing fits I am afraid.

If she re married as Annie Wilson I hate to think how many there would be to check.

On the 1939 Index I believe your parents were living on Wentworth St with three redacted
entries (children)

Still no burial.

Elaine in Ottawa.




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Re: burial

The aunt must be Catherine McMahon who married Frederick John King , Sheffield q2 1908. They had 4 children of their own by 1918 (GRO).

There is a possibility that Annie Wilson nee McMahon may have remarried after the birth of Kathleen?
Dave

Re: burial

Hi Elaine yes every thing you have said is right with what i have found out.I'll try the Northern General Hospital next to see if they have any records from the work house for 1913. thanks Kath

Re: burial

Hi Dave Catherine eventually had 11 children,and yes i am also going to try to find out if possible the fact that she could have remarried the only other thing i can think of is whether she died not long after the birth of my mother,i know she was still in the work house a month after the birth,so i am going to get intouch with the northern general hospital Kath

Re: burial

Hi Kath,

I believe all records would have been deposited at Sheffield Archives and I believe that many were lost(fire?). I would start there.Did we prove that Henry Wilson had died......?
Must look back on all the notes.
If we haven't already asked do you know his occupation and his age from the marriage certificate.

LOL I keep loosing the thread.

Elaine in Ottawa.

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Re: burial

Kath
I have checked out Annie Wilson marriages between 1913 and 1920. There are a few, but all but one can be eliminated using GRO index to find children of the marriages.
The one that cannot be eliminated in this way is 1915, Sheffield q4 Harry Parkin to Annie Wilson. There are no obvious children from this marriage with either mmn Wilson or mmn McMahon. A Annie Parkin, widow aged 57 died Sheffield in 1935, ie born 1877 so that fits. The burial is on this site.

It may be worth getting that marriage cert to see Annie Wilson's father's name.
Dave

Re: burial

I like the way its going Dave....... Think we are getting somewhere.

Elaine in Ottawa.

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Re: burial

Kath I do not know if you are already aware:
The GRO index shows that Annie Wilson nee McMahon had a son Albert in 1906 (died about 6 months old) and a son Henry in 1907 (died about 1 yr old).
Also in 1967 in Chesterfield there is a death record for Annie McMahon age 69. Could be the older sister, born 1898, who became a nun?
Dave

Re: burial

Hi all

Thought it might be useful to have a quick recap:

- 23 Feb 1898 Annie/Anna McMahon has an illegitimate daughter Annie. No father recorded on her birth cert. Annie is baptised at St Vincents on 23 March 1898. Father: Blank, Mother Annae. Address : Solly street

- In 1901 both are living with Annie/Annas family in Solly Street.

- In 1906 Annie/Anna McMahon marries Henry Wilson (no details yet about Henry unless kath has them from their marriage cert?)

- In 1911 Annie Wilson is a visitor in the household of James and Frances Carey at Tipton Street. No marital status recorded or mention of Henry Wilson (or seemingly obvious connection with the Carey family?). At this time Annies older sister Catherine King is also living in Tipton Street with her family.

Where is Annies other daughter Annie in 1911? She isnt with Annie at Tipton Street. She would only be 13 so must be with someone and wouldnt have gone into a convent yet, or would she??

- 29 Sep 1913 Annie/Anna Wilson gives birth to Kathleen in the Workhouse. No father is recorded on her birth certificate. However, 1 month later on 30 Oct 1913 Kathleen is baptised at St Vincents
Father: Henry, Mother: Anna MacMahon. Address: 17/2 Solly Street. Kath knows that Annie was still in the workhouse a month after kathleen was born (which takes us to 30 Oct so Annie is back in Solly Street after leaving the workhouse?)

- Henry and Annie/Anna are 'missing' after this point and kathleen is taken in and raised by her aunt Catherine King.

Denise

Re: burial

Hi Kathy/Dave,

from the 1901 census I believe the 3 yr old Annie is either a daughter of Annie or Maggie McMahon.

It reads as follows.....

Name: Annie McMahon
Age: 3
Estimated birth year: abt 1898
Relation to Head: Granddaughter
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Sheffield, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Sheffield
Ecclesiastical parish: Hollis Croft Sheffield St Luke
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Street address: 3ct 1h Solly St, Sheffield.
Household Members:
Name Age
John McMahon 52 head widower Bricklayers Lab born Ireland
John McMahon 26 son Plasterer born Sheffield
Annie McMahon 24 dau Spoon and Fork Buffer born Sheffield
Maggie McMahon 22 dau Silver Burnisher born Sheffield
James McMahon 16 son Lab in Newspaper Office born Sheffield
Kate McMahon 13 dau born Sheffield
Annie McMahon 3 g/dau born Sheffield.

*********************************************************************************

From that I would say she is either Annie's or Maggie's daughter.

Elaine in Ottawa.

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Re: burial

Hi Denise, Good idea.

""Where is Annie's other daughter Annie in 1911? She isn't with Annie at Tipton Street. She would only be 13 so must be with someone and wouldnt have gone into a convent yet, or would she?? ""

I can only give you an idea of what might have happened. This also happened to one of my gg aunts in Northamptonshire.She was given up for adoption aged six but never left the convent and later became a nun.

Even if Annie was "fostered out" (Nurse child) by age 13/14 she could have been placed in service. It has been suggested to me that 16 would have been the age the convent might have accepted her.

Bit by bit we will crack this.

I must admit yesterday the Annie Wilson in Chesterfield jumped out at me also.

Elaine.

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Re: burial

Dave T
Kath I do not know if you are already aware:
The GRO index shows that Annie Wilson nee McMahon had a son Albert in 1906 (died about 6 months old) and a son Henry in 1907 (died about 1 yr old).
Also in 1967 in Chesterfield there is a death record for Annie McMahon age 69. Could be the older sister, born 1898, who became a nun?
Dave
Hi Dave

I've found a baptism for Henry, Born 1907 which looks promising:
Born 15 Nov 1907
Baptised 4 Dec 1907, st Stephens Netherthorpe
Father : Henry, Edge Tool Striker
Mother: Annie

Adress: 28Ct 4 H Wentworth Street

This then ties in with the death you found in 1910 for Henry Wilson - Edge Tool Striker, of 4 Ct 28 House Wentworth Street. In the same Grave is Henry Wilson, son of Henry but that gives a birth date of 1909 and he died aged 15 hours, so maybe a 2nd son named Henry after the 1st Henry above died ??

I couldnt find any baptism for Albert Wilson MMN Mcmahon. But I would just add that I have found another couple - A George Wilson married a Margaret McMahon in 1901 so they could be having children at the same time, so another Wilson MMN Mcmahon in GRO, just to help confuse matters!!

Denise

Re: burial

Hi Dave

Cancel the above 'George Wilson married Margaret Mcmahon' - my mistake!!

There is another Wilson/Mcmahon marriage with associated births but the timescale is later than we're looking at!!

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It looks like the 1967 death of 69 year old Annie McMahon in Chesterfield is a false lead. She is on the 1939 register as Thornhill (McMahon)
Dave

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Dave,my brother Brian has ordered the certificate for son Albert 1906 ,we didn't know about Henry 1907

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Elaine my brother Brian went to the archives last saturday,and they couldn't find a death certificate,but they found out about albert born 1906.Henry was 26 yers old and a edge tool striker of 21 andrew st,grandmother 29

Re: burial

Dave grandmother's father John mcmahon

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Kath,
I know that your grandmother's father name was John McMahon
I am suggesting that you buy the 1915 marriage cert for Annie Wilson to Harry Parkin. If she is your grandmother she will have named John McMahon as her father. Then you will have proof, and you will have her burial.
Of course, she may not be, but at death Anna Parkin was the right age, and when she married Harry Parkin there were no children to follow, implying they were perhaps quite old. It all fits quite well, so I think there is a good chance. Unfortunately there is no other way to test it, other than buying the cert.
Dave

Ps if Annie had died in the workhouse in 1913 there would be a death reg on GRO. Also Denise has shown she left the worrkhouse.

Re: burial

Kath and Denise
I think I can clarify the Henry Wilson birth and death in 1907/1909
GRO has his birth q4 1906 mmn McMahon and death age 1 in q1 1909.
The baptism Denise found fits the birth
The burial record on this site has death in March 1909 age 15 HRS. I suspect that should be 15 MONTHS, then it would fit perfectly and we do not need to assume a second birth
ViCKI, can that be checked please?
Dave

Edit the fact that Henry and his sons were buried Anglican indicates a mixed marriage,

Re: burial City Road. 1909.

Morning Dave,

I have sent you a copy of the BURIAL of Henry Wilson jnr. It could be months. Mns/Mos ?

Looks as if Maggie re married as well as she is in the same Grave as Henry. She is now Margaret Brown. Her husband is also there.

Elaine in Ottawa.

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Re: burial City Road. 1909.

Elaine, thanks.
I have checked the original and I can see why the transcriber put Hrs. However, if you check the handwriting with others on the page, it is clear that it is Mos, ie months. The capital M shows up identical in names like Morton etc on the same page. I assume Vicki will correct.. There are a couple more on the same page which may have been wrongly transcribed as Hrs instead of Mos.

The Margaret Brown in the same grave cannot possibly be Maggie McMahon. The wrong age by 18 years.
Dave

Re: burial City Road. 1909.

Hi Dave,

I agree..... and yes I can change it...

Maggie was 22 yrs in 1901 making her birth year of 1879. I didn't subtract her death age of 79 from the year..... It would have fitted nicely. Oh well onward and upward. Margaret not all that common a name.

Funny they are in the same grave.

Elaine.

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Re: burial

Dave i will get the 1915 marriage cert

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k worrall
Elaine my brother Brian went to the archives last saturday,and they couldn't find a death certificate,but they found out about albert born 1906.Henry was 26 yers old and a edge tool striker of 21 andrew st,grandmother 29
Hi all,

Based an Brians find re details of Alberts birth I think this is his burial.

WILSON, Albert (Child, age 2 mo).
Died at 14 Andrew St; Buried on August 9, 1906 in Consecrated ground;
Grave Number 17760, Section CC1 of City Road Cemetery, Sheffield.
Parent or Next of Kin if Available: ~. Remarks: .
Plot Owner: ~ ~ of ~. Page No 1816

Denise