Have been revisiting my tree to ensure its accurate.

A number of Trees on ancestry have an ALBERT SANDERSON BORN AND DIED in 1820 to Henry SANDERSON & Mary Ann IVES of Sheffield.

However I am unable to duplicate that result. I question the accuracy of the trees howver I know I am not infalliable so its possible I am the one that is wrong.

Henry was a surveyor.

Any ideas?

Marie

Hi Marie

Apologies if you know all of this already .

I've found a baptism in Brodsworth, Doncaster for a Henry Sanderson (not Albert)

Henry Sanderson - Born Feb 22 1821, baptised 6 May 1821 - son of Henry and Mary Ann, of Paradise Square, Sheffield. Fathers Occupation - Land Surveyor.

Also the marriage of Henry Sanderson to Mary Ann Ives on 28 July 1818 at Brodsworth, Doncaster.

Found another child, Mary Ann, baptised in Brodsworth in 1829.

In between Henry and Mary Ann they then seem to have all their other children (Edmund & Alexander 1826, Charles 1824, William 1822) baptised in Sheffield. - but still cant seem to find a baptism/death for an Albert anywhere, but Brodsworth might be the place to dig a little deeper??

Denise

Hello Denise,

Good idea.

Thanks for the informatin as its very much appreciated.

Marie

Hi - I've looked too and can't see an obvious result, but have you tried putting the question to Doncaster Archives, they are very helpful and might just have more local information than is available online:

doncaster.archives@doncaster.gov.uk

good luck with your search

Thanks Theresa,

Will give that a go.

Marie

Marie.Do he trees on ancestry have a baptism or birth date for Albert, or do they only have a death date (April1820)
There is also a tree on Genes Reunited which has Albert as part of this family, though there are others with the family but no Albert.
Henry and Mary Ann married in 1818 so there is a good chance they did have a child before Henry was born in 1821.
Dave

Hello Dave,

I agree there is a good chance there was another child born before Henry born 22 Feb 1821 at Brodsworth.

This is what started me looking as the gap is 'unusual'. There were a steady stream of births after 1821 - 1822, 1823, 1825, 1826 and 1829. Mary died in 1830. Henry married secondly to Elizabeth HIBBARD and a steady stream of children born 1831, 1832, 1834, 1836, 1840 and 1843 who was named Albert. Albert died at about 2 weeks of age. Henry died in 1849.

I have searched everywhere I can think to look and have been suggested to look all without success.

Henry snr was involved with the early development of the railways and his patron with the Earl FITZWILLIAM. Thus he moved around a bit undertaking surveys for the railway foundations however I have looked in the places I know about and as said without success.

I think its interesting that the public Ancestry Trees have no source/references for this apparent birth but other births are referenced [not all]. Is this a case of copying what others have in their tree?

I contacted one of the Tree owners and she said she couldn't find her reference for the birth and as a result has deleted the child!!!

Perhaps there was a child who was stillborn and was not baptised or perhaps Mary miscarried and this could account for the gap.

Did deaths in 1830 [Mary Ann SANDERSON] and 1849 [Henry SANDERSON] record their issue and children who predeceased their parent/s???

I think I am going to make a note in my Tree of the potential for a birth in the period in question and the lack of success to date of locating such a birth. I also looked for burials without success.

Marie

Hi Marie
I do not have subs with ancestry but I believe that a date in April 1820 is given in the trees for Albert. This implies they have a death record.
It is a long shot, but two possible sources which you may not have considered for a death record might be:
Mi on Mary Ann's grave
A private family document handed down (eg family bible)
Dave

Hello Marie,

Can't help you with an Albert but have you checked out the Tree on Family Search website.(Free to register). Search for Mary Ann Ives, then click on the marriage for Mary Ann to Henry Sanderson, you will see a link at the bottom of the page to the Ives Tree.

It has two Henry's, one born 1820 who marries in the 1840's and the second is Henry Thelluson Sanderson born 1821 who also marries in the 1840's.
The Tree also lists Mary Ann Ives as Mary Ann Ives/Tennyson but I cannot find that connection, unless she was adopted..??

HAPPY HUNTING:sleuth_or_spy:

Hello Wendy,

Thanks for the information. I had a look at the tree and its very muddled. Mary Ann IVES lived at Brodsworth Hall and was neither acknowledged family nor was she a servant. She was appointed a guardian, John IVES. John was a witness to Mary Ann's marriage with Henry SANDERSON sen.

We are following the DNA path in an attempt to locate others whom share Mary Ann's DNA. I note some Ancestry Trees have her born in Soho however that's not correct. The TENNYSON name comes from Henry Jnr's death certificate. The informant was a Doctor based on what we don't know.

Marie

Hi Maria,
Do you have a birth date for Mary Ann Ives..?? I know you said the Soho birth was incorrect but on Family Search there is a birth/baptism for a Mary Tennyson Oct.1st 1797 at The Foundling Hospital(Home) in Saint Pancras (Kings Cross area)..??

If this date was M.A. Ives birth period and she lived at Brodsworth Hall at some point between 1797 and 1818, do you know what the Hall was being used for at that time..?? Also was her guardian, John Ives a tenant farmer..?? If so was Mary Ann actually living at the Hall or somewhere on the estate..??

I have come across one article from Univ. of Nottingham, that says between 1797 and 1850 the Hall and all of Peter Thellusson's (owner of B.Hall between 1791 until his death in 1797) dubious enterprises were managed by trustees. Peter left a very curious Will saying his grandsons were to inherit but he did leave stipends for his six children.
Peter, a Swiss National, also had many lucrative interests in London as well as some more suspicious ones abroad.

Unfortunately, still no closer to Albert Sanderson's birth or death. Henry Sanderson Snr., could also have been doing some land surveying for the Trustee's on behalf of the Estate.

HAPPY HUNTING :sleuth_or_spy:

Hello Wendy,

Apologies for the delay - was on holidays and couldnt get reception of any strength hence no reply.

You mention "I have come across one article from Univ. of Nottingham, that says between 1797 and 1850 the Hall and all of Peter Thellusson's (owner of B.Hall between 1791 until his death in 1797) dubious enterprises were managed by trustees. Peter left a very curious Will saying his grandsons were to inherit but he did leave stipends for his six children.
Peter, a Swiss National, also had many lucrative interests in London as well as some more suspicious ones abroad.

Unfortunately, still no closer to Albert Sanderson's birth or death. Henry Sanderson Snr., could also have been doing some land surveying for the Trustee's on behalf of the Estate."

Yes I am aware of the article and othr articles. We are absolutely certain after years of research that Mary Ann IVES was not baptised as Mary Ann IVES. Peter THELLUSSON had nominated John IVES and his wife Ann as Mary Ann's guardian. There is a long story behind it all and i am confident the Soho birth is not her.

The Tennyson name was incorrectly listed in Mary Ann's eldest son's death as the informant was a doctor in a hospitalwhere Henry [her son] was at the timeof his demise.

I think the Albert who was the subject of this post is onE of those mistakes that sometimes appear in Ancestry Trees.

However that doesnt change the possibility of a birth that has not as yet been located.

Many thanks for your efforts on my behalf.