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Elsie Whittaker

Hi all, Please can anyone help. I'm looking for three parish marriages, I have the marriage indexes: No.1 Elsie Whittaker to Bertie Bradley in 1921 Eccleshall Bierlow. No.2 Elsie Bradley to Frank Brazewell 1944 Sheffield. No.3 Bertie Bradley to Mary Farrington in 1931 Sheffield. I am trying to confirm whether Elsie and Bertie were divorced. Many thanks Liz

Re: Elsie Whittaker

hello Liz,
I drew a blank on all 3 parish marriages on Ancestry and FMP.


Regards

Terry

Re: Elsie Whittaker

Thanks for trying Terry much appreciated.Regards Liz.

Re: Elsie Whittaker

Hello Liz

Using FreeBMD, it seems that Elsie & Bertie had 3 children.
Elsie Bradley MMN Whittaker born Ecclesall Bierlow 1921
Frank (ditto) born 1926 and George born 1928

On the 1939 Register, there is Frank Brazwell and Elsie Brazwell, with Elsie Bradley born 1921, and Frank Brazwell born 1925, and 1 record redacted. They were living in Regent Court Flats which might be in Hillsborough.

I think this might show that Elsie Bradley nee Whittaker, did separate from Bertie, and settled with Frank Brazwell although your dates mean they can't have actually married until 1944.


I hope this helps.

Anne

Re: Elsie Whittaker

Thankyou very much Annie,that all makes sense,so if l could find the marriages would they tell me if they were divorced.Regards liz

Re: Elsie Whittaker

Years ago divorce was too expensive for working class people & it was common for them just to split up & even marry someone else.

Re: Elsie Whittaker

As Ann said, The Elsie Bradley who married Frank Fazewell in 1944 was born in 1921. Elsie Whittaker married Bertie Bradley in 1921 and had a daughter Elsie in the same year. Therefore those two marriages are not the same Elsie. They are most probably mother and daughter.
Also there were 2 Bertie Bradley's born in Ecclesall Bierlow, one in 1899 and another in 1904. It is likely that the marriage in 1921 is the first of these, and the marriage in 1931 is the other.
Bigamy was a criminal offence
Dave

Re: Elsie Whittaker

Thank you John and Dave T,This is a complicated one.I Phoned the Gro and they say it would tell you on the Marriage if there was a Divorce,so I might send for one just to eliminate that Query.Also in my research I found the 2 sons of Elsie were Registered twice with the same Reg No,both as Bradleys and both as Brazewells,I asked the Gro why and they said they didnt know? Regards Liz

Re: Elsie Whittaker

Liz, my apologies, I misread Anne's answer on the 1939 index.
It is clear that Elsie Whittaker married Bertie Bradley in 1921. It is also clear that Elsie and Brazewell got together and had children after Elsie Bradley was born. Eventually, presumably when it became legal, Elsie Bradley married Brazewell ie in 1944. Divorce became a real possibility in the mid 1930s, but If there had been a divorce then that marriage would have been between Elsie Whittaker and Brazewell. If the Bertie Bradley who married in 1931 was Elsie's husband then he committed a crime
Dave

Edit. Have you seen in the baptisms over to the left that Frank Brazewell was baptised on 6 th Jan 1926!!. That is very early in the quarter that he was double registered in 2 different names.

Re: Elsie Whittaker

Thank you Dave T for that,I had not seen the Baptism,I missed that one. On the 39 census it has his Birth as Dec 13 1925 which makes sense.I appreciate your help,I think I will have to accept I may not get to the bottom of this one.Regards Liz.

Re: Elsie Whittaker

Liz, there has to be an explanation for the two double registrations in the two different surnames. If it was just Frank it would be easy to think of a reason, but it happened again when George was born three years after Frank.
I believe the explanation has to be hidden in those two registrations of George Bradley and George Brazewell both with Mmn Whittaker. I cannot believe that one person made both registrations, and I find it difficult to believe they will have been registered at exactly the same time, though they were in the same quarter.
I am wondering if there was a ménage a trois.
I think those two birth records will be very informative, in respect of who did each registration, and when they did it. I presume you could get PDF versions of them to save some cost.
Dave

Re: Elsie Whittaker

Thanks again,Yes as you say they could be informative, as to the marriages.Perhaps I might ask the kids for them for a birthday present.Regards Liz.

Re: Elsie Whittaker

Hi Liz,

I wont get into the name issue but I just wanted to let you know that Regent Court Flats are still there as per Google Maps.
My old street director 1960's state the address is Regent Court Flats, Bradfield Rd, Hillsborough.

Certificates can be ordered on line and by ordering a PDF download it would cost you about 6 pounds. I believe the paper certificate is about 9.50 pounds.


Elaine in Ottawa.

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Re: Elsie Whittaker

Hi Elaine,Thank you, Wow there is a lot of interesting information about those flats.I will send for the PDFs in the future as I'm intrigued to find out the rest of the story now. Regards Liz.