My family have a story that has been passed down through the generations that my great grandmother, Eliza Fox Clark (born 1878), was the result of an affair between her mother Eliza Ann Clark and a member of the Samuel Fox family (1812-1887 from Stocksbridge).

The story was that Eliza Ann was working in the Fox household and became pregnant by a member of the Fox family but we do not know who. She was told that he was being sent to America in disgrace. I have been unable to find any passenger list with any Fox family member on it. Through gossip etc, she found out that he was returning a few years later and scanned every newspaper which was printed at that time to find out when he was returning so that they could meet. My ancestors believed that they were in love and in anger of them being parted, she gave Eliza the middle name of Fox so that they would not forget they had another relative.

I would love to try to find out if this story is true. I am wiling to do a DNA test to compare it with any surviving members of Samuel Fox.

Hi Debs,

The dates you mention for Samuel Fox do not seem to match the Wikipedia mention for Samuel
Fox of Stocksbridge.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Fox_(industrialist)

Hope this helps

Elaine in Ottawa.

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Hi Elaine

Thank you for your reply.

Obviously we don't think Samuel Fox was the father, but there were other family members working for Samuel Fox who could well have been the father. It's a matter of distinguishing which one it was. there is a possibility that it could well have been his son William Henry Fox

Debs

If you havent already done so it may be an idea to get her birth certificate & see if a fathers name is on it

Hi John

I already have her birth certificate and no father is on it and there is no father on her brother's either.

Thanks for the suggestion though

Debs

Could she have applied for financial help through the Bastardy law? I did find one of my ancestors in the Bradfield area - she got 1s a week and the father was named.
Unfortunately I can't remember where I found it!!

Hi Deb & Sue,

As I dont know how far Debs has gotten with her research I did a little research myself. Its hard to help with suggestions when you dont know the background.

Debs great-grandmother Eliza Fox Clark was born in 1878. Registered in Dec of that year.
So was conceived about Feb 1878

Her mother in 1871 was a 13 year old in school living with her parents on Montgomery Terrace Road. (Netherthorpe area) St Philips Parish.

In 1881 census the Clark family we still living on Montgomery Terrace. Eliza Ann the mother was 23 single and a Britannia Metal Polisher. Her father Richard was 51 and a Spring Knife Cutler born Sheffield.
Eliza Fox Clark was a 2yr old at this time. EFC was registered as a Clark.

Samuel Fox 1815-1887 born 17th June 1815. Bradwell Derbyshire.
In 1831 Apprenticed to Samuel Cocker of Hathersage a Wire Drawer.

He moved to Stocksbridge in 1842 (Mill owner)
and Dec of the same year married Maria Radcliffe.

He had one son (no daughters?) William Henry Fox. Reg Wortley Dec 1843. Who never married.

1841 census Samuel is living at Rails Rivlin.
1851 census the family (Maria & Wm) are living at Hunshelf Bank. Penistone.
1861
1871 Maria & William are at Cave Castle, South Cave, Yks.
1871 Samuel is at Town End Bradfield.
1881 Maria & William have moved to Bradwell Grove House, Burford. Oxfordshire.
where they stayed until William died there in 1920 (A very wealthyman by this time)
1881 Samuel is still at Town End Bradfield.

Samuel's probate list both residences as his home. He was buried in the E. Riding? why thats odd. 1887 Half the family in Oxfordshire and Samuel still up in Yorkshire.

Dont know if this helps or not Debs. DNA I would say is neigh impossible unless you go back to Samuel's siblings if he had any in Derbyshire. Lots of other Fox's around in Sheffield that may be the father. I have Fox's in my tree if you want to see them. Click on Tribalpages up above. The family story maybe just that. I have heard of so many like it.

Thats my two cents worth. Your brickwall by the looks of it.

Take care Elaine.

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Debs, you indicated that you have birth certs for 2 illegitimate children of Eliza Ann Clark. Did Eliza register them herself? If so, did she sign or make her mark?
Dave

Thanks Susan. I'll certainly try and find that out

Debs

Hi Elaine

Thanks for all the researching but I'd already got all that information.

Certainly looks like I have a brickwall until I do a little more in depth research through the bastardly laws

Debs

Hi Dave

She registered the births herself and signed with a x

Debs

Debs, the part of the story about her scanning every newspaper is definitely untrue. She could not read.
Dave

Hi Dave

I thought that myself after seeing the x but then wondered if somebody else read the newspapers for her but my family said she was always buying the newspapers a few years after the births. It could be that she learnt to read and write because on her marriage certificate some years later she did sign it.

Debs

With regard to the bastardy law,my understanding is that by 1878 she would have to apply to the petty sessions. However, because she was under 21 at the time of birth that would not be applicable because her father would be classed as responsible, not the parish.
No doubt someone will correct me if I am wrong.
Dave

PS learning how t write your name n later life is much easier than learning to read in later life, particularly when you have two young babies.

The bastardly laws ceased before EFC was born so I'll look if her father claimed anything at any time.
Thanks
Debs

Debs,

I had presumed you would have the info in my last e-mail but to short cut for others who might like to add more thats why I posted it. As I stated hard to follow on when we only know half the story.

She (EFC) was registered in Sheffield not Bradfield (Wortley).
What about the 2nd child any idea of who the father was?

I would have expected her to be baptised at St Philips but not showing up as being there.
Were they Anglicans?

Like most of us with illegitimate ancestors its hard to prove. I know with mine its all speculation and not worth the headache.

As far as signing with an "X", in the past we have discussed that some vicars or clerks actual asked the person to signs with an x as it was much faster and neater.
Don't forget she was at school in 1871. So would have some basic schooling at least.

Elaine in Ottawa.

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Hi Elaine

Thank you for your email.

EFC's birth was registered in Sheffield as Bradfield is on the out skirts of Sheffield and was the nearest main city to where they were living. Some of my family said that the 2nd child also had the same father but some of the family said he wasnt as he wasnt given the middle name of Fox - so this is still a mystery. If he did have the same father that means that maybe the father did not go to America when EAC was pregnant the first time round (perhaps they were just lying to her)- or if he did go, did he come back and they met up and EAF fell pregnant again!!

I couldnt find where she was christened either, in fact I cant find any proof that any of her 4 children were christened.

Debs

Hi Debs,

Found this in our Directory section over to the left.

CLARKE, Richard (Qualifying property, House).
Address: 2, Court 3, Montgomery Terrace Road, St Philips in 1875-1876.
Recorded in: Sheffield Burgess Rolls.

So we know from that for sure that Richard was at that address close to when Eliza conceived. Soooo they were in the Netherthorpe area. The 1871 & 1881 census bears that out. William Henry had become a Lawyer before 1881 and was down in Oxfordshire.

I personally would forget the family story linking you to that line of Fox. Its amazing have many girls became pregnant and blamed the LORD of the manor or a relative. The looking in papers for reference of his return from USA after 1878 is a bit of a long shot William as I said was down in Oxfordshire.

When Eliza Fox was registered where does it say she was born?

Elaine.

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Hi Elaine,

In an attempt to fill in the blank for 1861 here is what I found

Samuel Fox-manufacturer-visitor - age 45 -B:Derbyshire
James Willis- visitor - age 45- B:London
w/ 3 female servants
at ROYAL PARADE RESIDENCE-Pannnal/Knaresborough Dist./Parish:Low Harrogate/W.Yks.

1861= Maria Fox -age 40 manufacturers wife/ Mary Radcliffe age 81 visitor/and three servants
Residing: Townend/Ecclesfield Parish/Bradfield/Wortley/Yks

NO SIGN OF WILLIAM HENRY FOX WITH MARIA OR SAMUEL

1861 possibility for Wm.Henry Fox. Commercial Clerk in London
but the birth recorded is 1837 which is quite a bit different to what it should be 1843.

CHEERS
Wendy in Guelph:sleuth_or_spy: