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My paternal grandmother Ethel Wildgoose is interred here:
WILDGOOSE, Ethel (Widow, age 39).
Died at 10 Florence Place; Buried on July 9, 1923 in Consecrated ground;
Grave Number 29, Section XA of Norton Cemetery, Sheffield.
Parent or Next of Kin if Available: ~. Remarks: Removed from Sheffield parish.
Plot Owner: ~ ~ of ~. Page No 114
In the same grave, which I presume is a common grave, is someone who's unrelated.
Ethel's burial details say "Consecrated" ground, the other burial some 23 years later says "Unconsecrated" ground.
Can anyone explain the difference please?
Regards,
Marlene C.
Thank you Elaine, much appreciated.
Regards,
Marlene C.
Hi Marlene,
Just heard back from Vicki and she says both entries are correct.
Have you looked at the Map on the BURIAL page for Norton.
They usually state that one area is consecrated and the others are not.
Meaning that C of E folks probably choose to go in the consecrated area. All other denominations would go in the unconsecrated area.
You will see that Norton doesn't specify what the area is that cover Xa.
I would suggest you give City Road a call as they administer Norton. If you can let is know I would appreciated it.
Elaine in Ottawa.
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Hi Elaine,
Thanks for this information.
I have visited the grave area several times when we lived in Sheffield, obviously it's unmarked so I could only approximate the actual spot.
It makes it more of a mystery because Ethel's infant son, and her parents are also buried in Norton cemetery but, not with her, she's on her own in a different area.
I'll contact City Road and let you know their information.
Regards,
Marlene C.
Marlene and Elaine and Vicki
This problem is not just with one grave. A simple search of Norton Cemetry Burial records shows a very high occurrence of graves which are apparently switching between consecrated , unconsecrated and undefined. There has to be a logical explanation for so many.
Dave
Hi Dave,
Yes, having looked at several Burial Records there does seem to be a switch in consecrated/unconsecrated.
The other person interred with my grandmother Ethel Goodison is Amy Goodwin who I can't find any details for census or otherwise.
I wonder if it was merely down to whether there was a C of E minister present at the time of burial?
I'll contact City Road and report back.
Regards,
Marlene C.
Hi Marlene et al,
You may find the response of Dave Lambert(Family History Moderator) in the link below answers your question re: consecrated/unconsecrated ground. It sounds as if C of E cemeteries consecrated the whole cemetery grounds but if there was no minister at the burial it seems this could be classed as unconsecrated.
http://www.forum.familyhistory.uk.com/showthread.php?t=25528
Re: Amy Goodwin, she could possibly have been the wife of Robert Goodwin.
There is a marriage in 1900 Sept.Q. at Ecclesall Bierlow, recorded on BMD for Amy Creswick B:1873 Ecc.B.
To- Robert Goodwin B:abt 1876 in Manchester (Occupation-Tailor)
In the 1901, Amy and Robert are living at Eccleshall Rd, Ecc.B.
In 1911, Robert, now shopkeeper and bespoke tailor, has living with him, son- Ronald, daughter-Minnie Gwendoline, mother-Elizabeth and servant- Florence May Burkinshaw. the residence is at Eccleshall/Norton Woodseats.
There is no sign of Amy and since she ended up in a mental hospital, probably?? at Wadsley from where her body was removed to be buried at Norton Cemetery.
Cheers
Wendy :sleuth_or_spy:
Hi Wendy,
That's interesting information, thank you for that.
I wondered if it was down to whether there was a C of E minister present at the burial which would explain why there are two burials in this plot, one consecrated and one not.
Also interesting information regarding Amy Goodwin who I couldn't find details for, thank you.
Regards,
Marlene C.
Hi Marlene & Wendy,
I think where the problem is arising is that Norton is a Municipal Cemetery which would have had a consecrated and non consecrated section. Like Burngreave Cemetery they may have used the same lettering for both sections. Very confusing.
I was told by City Road many years ago that they usually use the central pathway as the divide between Consecrated and Non Consecrated plots. The Bishop would have officiated at the consecration of the area designated for the C of E's when the cemetery first opened.
I still think its work getting in touch with City Road Cemetery and putting the question to them Re plot XA.
Elaine in Ottawa.
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Hi Elaine,
What makes it confusing is that Ethel Wildgoose and Amy Goodwin are interred in the same grave but, one consecrated and the other unconsecrated which probably is like Wendy provided evidence of a minister being present at one interment and not at the other.
I have contacted City Road so I'll share their information on here.
Regards,
Marlene C
Marlene et al
I suspect the confusion is caused by a couple of misunderstandings.
First of all we need to realise that consecration is not the sole domain of the Church of England: any denomination minister/priest may consecrate a piece of ground/grave in the name of his own denomination.
The confusion comes because when cemeteries were set up they would have a defined area officially consecrated in the Cof E faith by the Bishop. This area would be called the consecrated area, but we should more accurately think of it as the area consecrated by C of E bishop. The remaining area then is defined as the unconsecrated area, but more accurately we should think of it as the area which is not consecrated by the C of E Bishop.
Any minister of any faith may consecrate a grave in that unconsecrated area when he performs a burial, so we could have a burial in the so called unconsecrated area which is consecrated (in some faith). I suppose that shoud mean it is permanently consecrated in that faith, but in reality that is likely to have been forgotten by the time of the next burial in that grave, so what is recorded then may depend on the presence of a minister (of any faith). There seem to be a lot of graves like that in Norton and there is a significant number in Woodhouse.
We have burials on this site in non Cof E churchyards, and by the site convention they are recorded as unconsecrated. In reality I suspect they are consecrated by that denomination, which happens not to be C of E.
I hope that does not add further confusion
Dave
Hi Marlene et al,
Sorry for stirring up a hornets nest re: burials etc.
I should clarify my original response, where I relayed to you, info from the given account of Dave Lambert, moderator with Family History UK website.
I was a little vague when referring to C of E cemeteries, this should have read, C of E Churchyard cemeteries(or graveyards).
Dave and Elaine appear to basically, be on the same page as the previously referred to Family History UK link.
I personally, found Dave Lambert's account very interesting, it encompassed a number of different reasons on this topic, not just the one I relayed, plus it had a lot of other informative burial 'stuff', which was all new to my aging brain and I thought it might be useful to pass it on FYI.
So glad (and relieved) you have already gone to the 'horse's mouth' and I too, will be interested to read what City Rd has to say via your feedback to this great SI website.
Once again, I apologise to all for any confusion.
Cheers, Wendy :sleuth_or_spy:
Hi Wendy,
No need to apologuise at all. Its all a learning experience as you know with family history. LOL.
My Methodist ancestors are all buried in either Burngreave section H. general section or
City Road.
The City Road gang are all in a Consecrated section (D) even though they are supposed to be Methodists. Think it became a matter of convenience in the end.
I dont know the burial rites of Methodists i.e. if the actual plot is consecrated at the time of burial or if they dont feel that is necessary.
As you said the best answer is to have it from the "Horses Mouth" City Road in Regards to Norton. Maybe Geoffrey White could enlighten us he's our Norton Vicar.
Regards.
Elaine in Ottawa.
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Here's the reply from City Road:
Unfortunately, after checking our records, we cannot help with your enquiry, as there is no indication as to why one record shows Consecrated and the other Un-consecrated. Other graves on that section also have various records – we can only presume that one interment had a C of E service, and the other interment did not (but we cannot confirm this).
Regards,
Marlene C.
Hi Marlene,
Thanks for letting us know the answer City Road came up with.
Didn't help much but if anyone should know one would have expected them to give us the info.
Maybe someone else will come up with a better answer. I wondered if it was a "Common Grave" where the plot was used for a specified number of years or burials and then sold on. Did I say that before. LOL.
Elaine in Ottawa.
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