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Hello Forum
Many thanks to Moira and Elaine for their responses to my enquiry last month on SARAH ANN THOMPSON
This has solved one of the links between THOMAS WATSON and his two nieces listed in the 1861 Census at Crookesmoor – ELIZABETH THOMPSON & ELIZABETH GRAYSON. The link being the marriage between JOHN THOMPSON & SARAH GRAYSON on 13th July 1843.
I still need to link the WATSON & THOMPSON families and my best guess is through THOMAS WATSON’s wife ELIZABETH b circa 1814 in Sheffield.
Elaine has suggested a marriage to ELIZABETH BAMFORTH in 1837 but later census entries appear to rule this out.
Can Forum members confirm either a baptism for ELIZABETH THOMPSON in Sheffield circa 1814 father James or a marriage between THOMAS WATSON and ELIZABETH THOMPSON prior to 1841?
Thanks
John
Hi John/Moira/All
Just to add to John's query and where I had left it.
The 1871 census was where I believe the Watson/Thompson/Hodgkinson families link.
BUT... I could be wrong of course.
1871 census - 45 Sydney Road, Sheffield, Nether Hallam.(Commonside)
Thomas Watson, 52yrs, Retired cow keeper, Wadsley, Yks. Blind.
Elizabeth Watson,wife, 59yrs, Sheffield.
William Watson, father, 77yrs, widower, Late farm labourer, Mortemley, Yks.
Thomas Watson King, Grand nephew, 3yrs, Crookes, Yks.
Arthur Dungworth, Boarder, 11yrs, Scholar, Crookes, Yks.
James? (Arthur D) Hodgkinson, Nephew, 25yrs, File cutter, Ecclesall, Yks.
Sarah Ann Hodgkinson, Niece, 23yrs, Sheffield.
Mary Hodgkinson, Grand niece, 7months, Sheffield.
Minnie Thompson, Niece, 17yrs, Servant, Sheffield.
James I believe is my Arthur Dungworth Hodgkinson........
Mary I believe is Minnie.
HODGKINSON, MINNIE THOMPSON THOMPSON (Sarah Ann)
GRO Reference: 1870 S Quarter in ECCLESALL BIERLOW Volume 09C Page 253
The 1881 census still has them at 45 Sidney Rd (Sydney Rd). (Commonside)
The marriage of Thomas Watson & Elizabeth Bamforth took place at Ecclesfield in 1837.
Thomas & Elizabeth Watson had no children that I could find but I believe they ended up taking in many rellies.
My link its with the Dungworth/Hodgkinson folks.
Elaine in Ottawa.
Instant Messenger: Skype
Hi John,
There is a baptism registered for Elizabeth Thompson born 31st July 1815 and baptised at St Peter & St Paul(Sheffield Cathedral) on 3rd September 1815 parents shown as James and Ann - James occupation Grinder.....
I have now also found a Thomas Watson b.1819 Wadsley married to Elizabeth b.1814 working as servants in 1851 at Prospect Place, Crookesmoor, Sheffield for Samuel Frost a retired merchant and his wife Mary. Thomas is a Houseman, Elizabeth servant born Sheffield. If this is the correct couple they are then in the 1861 census living Crookes Moor with 3 nieces, Elizabeth and Sarah Ann Thompson and Elizabeth Grayson. They have two servants Edwin Watson b.1835 Wadsley working as a general farm servant and George Gregory b.1843 Derbyshire working as a carter. Thomas is now a farmer of 6 acres employing 2 men.
Thanks Wendy & Elaine.
That's a good match for Elizabeth in the baptism records.
Need a marriage record to clinch it!
John
Thanks Wendy - have done a joint reply to you and Elaine on her post.
John
Hi again Wendy
Another quick follow up on the first element of your earlier response.
I think that the first of two James Thompson I have found on the Indexers bap records is a sibling of Elizabeth. The second could also be if James remarried.
Thompson, James (of Sheffd., born 1818-06-08).
Baptised September 27, 1818, by M. Preston at Sheffield Parish Church, Church Street, Sheffield.
Parents name(s) are Ann & James (Grinder).
Thompson, James (of Sheffd, born 1821-08-21).
Baptised September 23, 1821, by H Blackburn at Sheffield Parish Church, Church Street, Sheffield.
Parents name(s) are Elizabeth & James (Grinder).
Have you a bap entry for John Thompson circa 1815 giving parents? I cant see one on the Indexers site - or any overlap in children baptised showing there were two father James?
Best regards
John
Elizabeth Thompson, aged 2 years, buried 7 March 1817, Sheffield Parish Church.
Daughter of James Thompson, grinder of Bailey St.
I think this is the Elizabeth that Wendy found a baptism for in 1815.
Moira.
Hi John
Looking at the baptisms for James Thompson these are two separate families.
There is a James Thompson (grinder) married to Ann who appear to have had three children baptised at the cathedral, George born 22 July 1812,baptised 25 Dec 1812,
Elizabeth b 31 July 1815 bap 3 Sep 1815 and James b 8 June 1818 bap 27 Sep 1818.
There is also another family James Thompson (grinder)married to Elizabeth.
John born 19 Aug 1815 bap 10 Sep 15 (mum is listed as Bessy)
George b 26 Feb 1817 bap 6 April 1817
Ann b 5 Sep 1819 bap 12 Feb 1820
James b 21 Aug 1821 bap 23 Sep 1821
Elizabeth b 15 June 1823 bap 31 Aug 1823 (mum is listed as Betsy)
William b 11 July 1825 bap 7 Aug 1825.
Just to confuse things further there is also a James and Elizabeth having children baptised at the same time but he is listed as a scissorsmith.
Regards
Steve
Thanks Steve
That's most helpful in unravelling my Thompsons.
I can see the third family on the Indexers' baptisms so I now have a clearer picture of the three James Thompson's family.
My g.g.grandfather John was a shear grinder so almost certainly he took his father's trade.
Best regards
John
Hi John,
I have John Thompson born 19th August 1815 and baptised 10 September 1815, parents are James and Bessy Thompson (grinder of Sheffield). Bessy is actually Betsy Gill born in Thorne and married James Thompson in 1813. John married Hannah Smith in 1838 when they had a daughter called Mary. Hannah died in 1841 and John remarried in 1843 to Sarah Grayson. Their daughter Sarah married Arthur Hodgkinson. Witnesses at their marriage was Thomas Watson and Elizabeth King. Wonder if this Elizabeth is the one you are looking for. I think the Thomas Watson is the one in the 1871 census.
Wendy
Hi Wendy and John,
I think the Elizabeth King is Elizabeth Thompson who is on the 1861 census,
Elizabeth Thompson, 22yrs, married Austin King at St. Thomas, Crookes, 23 March 1867.
Her father is John Thompson, grinder.
Thomas Watson King aged 3 is on the 1871 census along with Thomas and Elizabeth
Watson.
Thomas Watson King, born 30 June 1867, bap 27 Nov 1867, Sheffield Parish Church.
Parents - Austin and Elizabeth of Sidney Road, scissor smith.
To date, I have not found a direct Watson/Thompson connection.
There is no marriage at Sheffield for a Thomas Watson and Elizabeth that would
fit the bill.
I think the marriage Elaine found at Ecclesfield between Thomas Watson and
Elizabeth Bamforth is most likely to be the right one.
William Watson aged 77yrs (father of William on 1871 census) is said to be born
at Mortomley. There is a William Watson bap 30 Aug 1795 at Ecclesfield,
father William of LANE END.
Elizabeth Bamforth bap 19 July 1818 at Ecclesfield, Parents - William and Ann,
miner of Mortomley, LANE END.
I found this marriage but not sure if it fits in anywhere.
8 July 1793, Ecclesfield.
William Bamforth, of parish of Tankerley to Hannah Grayson, otp.
Moira.
Thanks Moira & Wendy for your further help on this. Some new info for me for which I'm very grateful.
Elaine and I communicated directly by e-mail about the Watson/Bamforth marriage. This is part of one of my responses:
"Thanks for the Watson/Bamforth 1837 marriage pointer – I have now got the marriage details you found.
I am putting together a further post to the Forum on Thomas Watson’s possible marriage links as you suggest. However, I think we have two Thomas Watsons!
The Indexers have this Bamforth/Watson household transcription in 1841:
Bamforth, Ann of Hesley Park, Ecclesfield. Aged 55 years.
(Piece #1327/5, folio 46a, enumeration district 3.)
Bamforth, Casandra of Hesley Park, Ecclesfield. Aged 17 years.
Bamforth, Mary of Hesley Park, Ecclesfield. Aged 21 years.
Bamforth, William of Hesley Park, Ecclesfield. Aged 50 years.
Bamforth, William of Hesley Park, Ecclesfield. Aged 19 years.
Watson, Elizabeth of Hesley Park, Ecclesfield. Aged 23 years.
Watson, Thomas of Hesley Park, Ecclesfield. Aged 34 years.
Next page:
Watson, George of Hesley Park, Ecclesfield. Aged 1 years.
Watson, William of Hesley Park, Ecclesfield. Aged 3 years.
So I presume this Elizabeth Watson was nee Bamforth. The children’s ages match the 1837 marriage date.
In 1851 I have found Elizabeth (Head) & William Watson – plus other younger children but no Thomas – as Ancestry extract below:
Name: Elizabeth Watson
Age: 33
Estimated birth year: abt 1818
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Ecclesfield, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Ecclesfield
Ecclesiastical parish: Thorpe Hesley
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps: View related Ecclesiastical Parish
Town: Chapeltown
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Disability:
View image
Registration district: Wortley
Sub-registration district: Ecclesfield
ED, institution, or vessel: 05
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 166
Piece: 2335
Folio: 111
Page Number: 41
Household Members: Name Age
Elizabeth Watson
33
William Watson
13
Next door are the same Bamforth family.
So the Elizabeth Watson (age 37) with Thomas Watson in Crookesmoor 1851 and again in 1861 is I think a different lady! This suggests a different Thomas!"
John
John, this one does seem complicated, but there are so many different names in the same household that we must be able to find something. Would like to help but would like more info which I assume you have.
You know the parents of Sarah Ann and Elizabeth Thompson, but who were the parents of Elizabeth Grayson?
Do you have death details for John and Sarah Thompson?
Do you know what happened to Mary Thompson?
Have you looked for a connection between Watson and Grayson? Or between Grayson and Elizabeth Watson?
Dave
Hi Dave
Thanks for the offer to help.
I'll do a fuller response in the next day or so. Maybe an e-mail would be better?
Regards
John
John, let us keep it here on the forum. The more experts who see it and contribute the more chances we have to get to a positive result.
Dave
Ps I find the best way to do a complicated message on here is to do it in Word then, when I am happy it is right, copy and paste to here.
Hi Dave
Thank you for your offer of help on this. I have put my responses below to your questions.
Do not spend too much time on this - I'm not even sure that I have any connection to Thomas Watson - but the use of Watson as a forename of my Hodgkinson ancestors has intrigued me for some time.
Best regards
John
You know the parents of Sarah Ann and Elizabeth Thompson, but who were the parents of Elizabeth Grayson?
Moira has supplied this marriage from Find My Past records
Sheffield Parish Church.
Marriage, 13 July 1843.
John Thompson, 27, Widower, Shearsth of Broad Lane, father - Jas. Thompson, Grinder.
Sarah Grayson, 24, Spinster, of Moorfields, father - Josh. Grayson, File smth.
Not sure if this is Joshua or Joseph Grayson but Ancestry and free BMD have several Joseph Grayson deaths pre 1841 in the Sheffield area but no Joshuas.
Sarah Grayson is in the 1841 Census at Moorfields – Head is Martha Grayson (60) presumably widowed. I have a marriage of Martha Ashworth and Joseph Grayson in Rotherham in 1807 which is the best match I can find (Yorkshire, Bishops Transcripts).
Do you have death details for John and Sarah Thompson?
No.
Do you know what happened to Mary Thompson?
Wendy has advised that John married Hannah Smith in 1838 when they had a daughter called Mary. Hannah died in 1841 and John remarried in 1843 to Sarah Grayson. Nothing more known at the moment.
Have you looked for a connection between Watson and Grayson? Or between Grayson and Elizabeth Watson?
Yes have tried the obvious searches but no luck so far.
Later than I thought but.........
Thomas Watson & Elizabeth Grayson. Married March qtr 1849 Rotherham 22 323.(FreeBMD)
Think I also found Thomas in 1841. Used our index. 1334/3 43a.
He was a M.S. aged 20 (age rounded down) in the household of Hannah Stead a Farmer.
in Nether Hallam.
Looking back at the 1871 census it answers your questions John re the Grayson connection.
Elaine in Ottawa.
Instant Messenger: Skype
Well spotted Elaine. Problem solved!!!
Presumably Sarah Grayson's sister Eliza living with her in 1841 at Moorfields.
Yes that could well be Thomas in 1841.
Thanks for you for your help and that of Moira, Wendy and Dave.
Best regards
John
Fantastic Elaine,
Just to add some meat to the bones you found......
Marriage, 16 Jan 1849, Rotherham Parish Church.
Thomas Watson, 29, bat, Farmer, Rotherham, William Watson, farmer.
Elizabeth Grayson, 35, spin, Rotherham, Joseph Grayson, filesmith.
Moira.
Sorry, I always forget to put these on....
Witnesses: John Thompson and Sarah Thompson.
Moira.
That's helpful Moira.
Confirms Joseph not Joshua Grayson.
Witnesses were Elizabeth's sister and brother in law John - my g.g.grandparents.
All nice and tidy!
John
Hi John,
Sarah wife of John Thompson of Neepsend Lane, aged 33, buried 7 March 1852
at St. George, Brook Hill.
John Thompson of Pea Croft aged 45, buried 8 Sep 1852, St. George, Brook Hill.
Dave very kindly supplied the age for John as it was not on the transcription
I found. I was also worried about the addresses as in 1851 John and Sarah
were living at 51 Meadow St.
Minnie Thompson Hodgkinson aged 1yr 8mos, of Crookes Moor Side,
buried 23 May 1872, All Saints, Ecclesall.
Moira.
John, just to clarify, the church burial for John has no age. However the GRO index for John Thompson died Sheffield q3 1852 gives his age as 45. That may be a mistranscription or it may be that whoever registered his death did not know his age. His wife had died a few months before and if they were new to the area then maybe no one knew his age. Since these two are your blood line ancestors I would recommend buying the certs. They are available from GROIndex as PDF so only £6 each it certainly makes sense that the children were orphaned.
Elaine, great find
Dave
Many thanks to all the respondents to this thread.
I think we can now close it with my initial question solved and also much additional information provided.
Best regards
John