I'm trying to work upwards of this baptism record on FamilySearch - parents William and Martha. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JMBV-QYC
Thomas becomes a haft presser (also later described as a table knife manufacturer).

I've had a look at your indexes (and obtained lots of useful info about other Bashforths - thanks!), but I see that there's a gap 1752-1816 in the Cathedral baptisms.

I can see a line of Williams starting with this one:
Bashforth, William (of Sheffield, born ~).
Baptised February 9, 1750, by ~ at Sheffield Parish Church, Church Street, Sheffield.
Parents name(s) are ~ & William (filesmith).

But cannot see any William Bashforth marriage to Martha (probably because the indexing is not yet complete for the year they were married).

Is there any way of establishing whether Thomas is the son of the William baptised in 1750, or is there anywhere else to check if there's another William Bashforth born in the next little while, and/or one who marries a Martha? (Thomas' siblings were born between 1783 to 1793, with a possible first William in 1778, who died before the William born in 1785.)

Hi Mel,

The Thomas bap 23 April 1788 to parents William and Martha Bashforth, the
father is a cowkeeper.

Over in the left hand column on this site, under apprentices & freemen,
there is a apprenticeship for a Thomas Bashforth, son of William, of
Crookes Moor Side, husbandman, he his apprenticed to Thos. Bramwell of
Crookes Moor, knife maker. Freedom 1812.

I have not found a marriage between a William Bashforth and Martha.
I have searched the CD's I have for both Sheffield and Ecclesfield but no luck.
The only one I did find was at Darton, 3 Jan 1775, William Bashforth of the parish
of _oyston (can't make out the first letter) to Martha Woodcock, otp.


The baptisms in 1783 and 1793,for Martha and Sabina, parents William and Martha,
William is a carpenter.
The one in 1790 for Timothy, father William is a labourer. All at Sheffield Parish
Church.

Moira.

Probably Royston Moira

Angela

Hi Moira and Angela

Thanks very much for this additional information - much appreciated. I think that I did come across that Darton marriage on FS, but thought it probably too far away.

I will need to process this information and familiarise myself with the possible scenarios tomorrow. It sounds as if there may be more than one family involved?

Is it possible or likely that the cowkeeper could be the same person as the husbandman?

I also have an extract from the Cutlers' Society History (? - not sure of the exact title) from the Sheffield Family History Society which shows various apprenticeships, but it's hard to work out in the absence of other info. Your extra info might help there. It's all on my computer though and I'm on my tablet now, so will have to review it all tomorrow.

Mel, a husbandman was a farmer, usually arable. A cow keeper was clearly a farmer of dairy or livestock. I guess some farmers did both at the same time.
Dave

Oh dear, this is confusing.

Firstly, my apologies. My befuddled brain last night reported that I'd obtained that Cutlers' Company snippet from the Family History Society, when of course I now realise that it was from your website, and you (Moira) have quoted from it below.

I think, from what I have found so far, that there are at least two families with father William Bashworth. The one I have been assuming my line has been the William & Martha one, but I'll list the children with the father's occ. as supplied by you alongside and it starts to look a bit odd. Also represented on FS here: https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/M51Y-K6P
Martha (1783) - Carpenter
William (7 Oct 1783) - ?
Thomas (1788) - Cowkeeper. (Thomas later becomes haft presser, and has children, amongst others, called William, Thomas and Sabina.)
Timothy (1790) - Labourer
Sabina (1793) - Carpenter.
Is it possible or likely that this William is the same person, a kind of jack of all trades, who later takes up the apprenticehip with Thomas Bramwell?

FS also shows another William, married to Mary, who have the following children (one is confirmed, the other 3 shown as suggestions https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/M5TL-7G4:
William 1778 25 Dec
John 1781 27 May
Thomas 1783 29 Sep
Samuel 1786 8 Feb.

Are you able to see young William (7 Oct 1783) and see what father's occ. says there? And/or any other details of the William and Mary couple just to see if there is enough conflicting info to separate them from William and Martha?

I don't suppose there's any way of knowing if the Royston/Darton couple moved to Sheffield, but it would be nice to have all of the info about the two William Bashworth families in Sheffield at the same time to avoid further confusion, should someone else build further on these in the future.

No rush on this because it's night-time in Australia now and I probably won't get a chance to come back to this tomorrow (NYE!).

Thanks for this, Dave. That makes sense. :slightly_smiling_face:

Hi Mel,

"I've had a look at your indexes (and obtained lots of useful info about other Bashforths - thanks!), but I see that there's a gap 1752-1816 in the Cathedral baptisms."

Just to clear up the reason for the gap for you.

S&DFHS had the baptisms from 1752 to 1812.

We decided to cover 1812 to 1842. BUT had problems with 1812 to 1816.

This was of course a number of years ago. S&DFHS have now completed 1813-1875 and the Cd can be ordered from Genfair.

Elaine in Ottawa.

Instant Messenger: Skype

Hi Elaine

Ah, I see. Thanks for that, that's useful to know.

I think that at this stage I am just going to document what I have so far on this family and park it for the moment; perhaps come back to it at a later date to try to work out the Williams. I've found Genfair (new to me and of possible interest in other research) and will keep the link to the CD in my notes.

Cheers and happy new year, everyone!:slightly_smiling_face:

p.s. And I now realise upon review of my earlier post that I was getting mixed up with William vs Thomas, re the apprenticeship to Thomas Bramwell. A product of spending too long on the computer and tiredness at night! (That's my excuse, anyway, and I'm sticking to it.) Hmmm, if Thomas son of Wm and Martha was born in 1788, he'd only be about 12 then...? The other Thomas (Wm and Mary) was born 1783, making him 17.

And I see there's a William, son of William, Crookes Moor side too, to Ibberson George, knifemaker, in 1799. Both of the families had a William as well, Martha's being Oct 1785 (mistake above, not 1783), making him 13-14 then, and Mary's in Dec 1778, making him 20-21.

I will ponder further when I come back to it.

Hi Mel,

I found an item in the Sheffield Independent, 24 March 1827.
To be sold by Auction.
At the Commercial Inn, Sheffield, on Tuesday 27 March at three in the afternoon.
The following valuable freehold and copyhold Estates, situate respectively
at Crookes Moor in the parish of Sheffield and at Peckhall, chapelry of Bradfield.
There are 12 lots altogether, One to nine are all freehold which include....
homestead, garden and croft. (There are several plots of land, one on Hallam Gate Rd.
Two cottages with tenants).
It says lots one to nine are all freehold.
All the above mentioned lots were lately in the occupation of Mr William Bashforth
deceased.
Lot 10, Dwelling house in Angel Street.
Lot 11, Pew 34 Sheffield Parish Church.
Lot 12, 5/9ths of estate called Peckhall in Bradfield.

Will: William Bashforth, Sheffield, Yks.
Date: 1827 Jun.
Court: York.
Doc. Ref: vol 175.f.413.
Index Ref: 1827011830100020.fif/14


Burials at All Saints, Ecclesall.
Wm. Bashford, bur 9 Aug 1826 aged 77 yrs (1749).
Martha Basford, bur 9 May 1827 aged 77yrs (1750).

There are also children of Thomas and Elizabeth, cutler/haft presser.

Just to complicate matters, I found this baptism....
William Bashforth bap 30 June 1751 at Royston, father Timothy.

Are the Sheffield and Royston families related?

Moira.

Forgot to add, re the burials of William and Martha at Ecclesall
William is a farmer of Ecclesall and Martha is widow of Ecclesall.

Moira.

Ah, thanks Moira, that's excellent.

So it seems that there's evidence to tie William (farmer) and Martha, of Crookes Moor, to the son Thomas who is apprenticed around age 12 to Thomas Bramwell in 1800, and the other son William apprenticed aged around 13 to George Ibberson...

Which leads to the likelihood that it's that Thomas who is indeed the haft presser.

It seems possible that William the farmer may have been born in 1751 in Royston? There is also that other William who marries Mary (children born Sheffield - see above), of whom we don't know the origins... But the fact that William & Martha have a son called Timothy is of significance. The website about the Bashforth family (https://bashforth.wordpress.com/bashforth-family-name/early-spread/) mentions quite a few names and places, but nothing specific enough to help pin these down, and no Timothys are mentioned.

Thanks for these additions; these are great and give me added confidence about the William-Martha family as well as the dates of death. I will add all of the extra information as notes, including the Royston Timothy and the William-Mary family, in case someone else works on that line in the future.

Reviewing my notes, I find that I have this baptism from your records:

Bashforth, William (of Sheffield, born ~).
Baptised February 9, 1750, by ~ at Sheffield Parish Church, Church Street, Sheffield.
Parents name(s) are ~ & William (filesmith).
Note:
Godparents: ~ :Page No ~ :Reg No ~

I wonder if this could be our William? There are no clues such as Crookes moor or Ecclesall Bierlow, but the date is approximately right for the burial...

p.s. Oh no, I think that I have just discounted this one after looking at those apprentices again. There's a William, son of William, filesmith, who is apprenticed to Joseph Hawksley, filesmith, in 1762 and Freedom in 1784. This must be that William. The origins of our William the farmer will remain for the moment a mystery.

I think that I have all of my notes in order - I also picked up a lot about Thomas from directory entries from your site, so have built quite a lot of detail in chronological order in my notes there. Will finish his entry on Geni tomorrow.