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Brick Walls

How about over the next few days we dust off those Brick Walls that we look at once a year and give up on.

Here in Ontario we are expecting a week of extremely cold weather (minus 20+).
Just the type of weather to hunker down and get the old grey matter working on those Brick Walls.

When giving us info remember...... Names, dates,possible area of Sheffield where they lived and occupations.

If you only have a name have you checked with FreeBMD or the Sheffield CouncilBMD.

Soooooo lets get at those brick walls.

Elaine in Ottawa.

Instant Messenger: Skype

Re: Brick Walls

My brick wall. Apologies it is not Sheffield but my grandmother moved to Sheffield by 1914)

Recently I made progress and found my grandmother's 2nd illeg. child's death but cannot obtain any birth reg for him. Joseph Vivian Imason died 3rd April 1907 aged 17 mths at 5 Radnor St Swindon. Father was Everett George Imason and his grandmother Annie Rose was present at his death, she went and registered it on the day he died. So Joseph would have been born in 1905.

Their 1st child Pearl had been born in Llandudno but Bp in Swindon and I cannot find any bp for this 2nd child either. It may be that the parents had moved on - yet again - and left the grandparents to bring him up.

I have tried all variants of the surname even thinking how it could be misread e.g Mason perhaps. I have searched just on the Christian names too. Due to Everett's theatrical life (conjurers assistant, B/W minstrel, actor) the child could have been born anywhere.
Any help or suggestions would be much appreciated.
Lyn

Re: Brick Walls

Hi Elaine & All,

I am happy to post my brickwall here but I don't expect any breakthroughs though. I can hope though ;)

William Jones born circa 1796, unsure of place of birth as he didn't seem to know either! 1841 census he says 'yes' to born in county. 1851 he says born Jersey British Subject. Finally 1861 he says 'at sea' (well I thought it said that and that's what its transcribed as too....but just looking at it again, it also looks like 'not sure'!

I really would like to locate where he was born and who he was the child of. Any help is appreciated. The first known fact I have about him is his marriage in Sheffield at the Cathedral on the 5th May 1822 to Mary Marshall. He was a bachelor 'of the parish'. Witnesses appear to be resident witnesses so no clues there. He is a silver smith on all census and on his children's marriage certificates. He and his family are at Hanover Street in 1841 and then 7 Cheney Row, Sheffield from 1851 until his death on the 26th January 1869. He is buried at All Saints, Ecclesall.

He doesn't appear to have left a will. Could there be any records of him in Sheffield before 1822 which might give any clue to who his family were?

I know with the surname being Jones and the first name being William, my chances are low at getting any further back with this guy.

Claire

Re: Brick Walls

Hi Claire,

There's a Sheffield baptism in 1800 for a Watkin Young William Jones who was born in 1796. It says his father was an ensign in the army. Might be worth checking that one out, as it could explain birth in Jersey but still being from Sheffield.

Heths

Re: Brick Walls

Lyn, what was your grandmother's name please?
Dave

Re: Brick Walls

Hi Heather,

He certainly looks promising and I am trying to find out anything at all about him or his father which is proving difficult other than a marriage by licence at the Cathedral of the parents.

Thank you for taking a look :)

Claire

Re: Brick Walls

Dave T
Lyn, what was your grandmother\'s name please?
Dave
Hi Dave - that is one of the problems - she was born Naomi Beatrice Rose in 1895 in Swindon but used the name Naomi Beatrice Irene McRoze when she married my granddad in 1914 in Sheffield. She also jiggled her name about. In the 1901 she called herself Alma - when she had Pearl in Llandudno to Everett George Immeson in 1903/4 she called herself Minnie and Pearl's birth was registered in the surname of George but on Pearl's baptism in Swindon it was under the Imeison surname (all variants have popped up).
I have actually ordered a birth certificate for a Joseph Vivian George born in Wolverhampton in the Dec qtr of 1905 which would seem to fit and the only Joseph George I can find in 1911 still alive in the census was only 2 yrs old. No middle name of Vivian and as my Joseph Vivian died in 1907, he of course does not appear in any 1911 census. I just have a gut feeling on this. Naomi's mother's surname was also George before she married Joseph Rose.
I'll let you know if my gut feeling proves correct. I hope I am not confusing people with this
Lyn

Re: Brick Walls

Lyn, according to GRO index that Joseph Vivian George birth cert in Wolverhampton has mother maiden name ROSE so I suspect you are on the right track. What a very complicated life she seems to have created.
Dave
Edit are you sure you have all your facts straight. I doubt that a girl born in 1895 could give birth in 1905!!!!

Ok, I see , she was born in 1886 not 1895.

Re: Brick Walls

Sorry she was actually born in 1885 Dec 15th. How did you find the surname Rose as it was pre 1911?
She has led me a merry trail having told her children she was born in Ireland, married at 16 had the two children, one of which died before the age of 2, got divorced at 18 even though she was supposedly a RC and came to England. Even the birth date she went by in the family was out by 4 yrs to match my granddad's year of birth.
So I had to exhaust all Irish records I could before I could turn my search to England. I can only think being theatrical maybe they did a few moonlight flits so were never precise as to their surnames.
When my grandad met her (presumably in Sheffield) I was told by my aunt that Naomi was in a bit of trouble and he helped her out. By 1911 they were visitors at a house Doncaster pretending to be married. At that time the family had no links with Doncaster.
Many thanks
Lyn

Re: Brick Walls

Hi Lyn

The GRO have produced some online indexes. From 1837-1911 the mother's maiden name is now included.
Deaths have the age at death transcribed from 1837-1865.

The GRO is piloting a service from 12 October 2017 to provide portable document format (PDF) copies of digitised historical birth and death records. The pilot will run for a minimum of 3 months to enable GRO to assess the demand for this service over a prolonged period.

Applications for each PDF cost £6, must be made online, and include a GRO index reference.

England and Wales records which are available as PDFs in this extended pilot include:

Births: 1837 –1916
Deaths: 1837 –1957

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp

Angela

Re: Brick Walls

Many thanks Angela - I had ordered it via the GRO website £6 PDF having used Ancestry for the volume and page no, but hadn't realised that the mother's surname was also available pre 1911. So now I know in advance my gut feeling was right. Yippee:relaxed:

All the best for the New Year.
Lyn

Re: Brick Walls

Apologies in advance if you have already worked on this...it remains unsolved. Hopping in and out of the research for long periods of time make forgetting or failing to recognize relevant info the norm rather than the exception.

This weather that Elaine mentions has prompted a visit to my Ancestry account which shows my paternal line ending with this lady and gentleman.

My 4th ggf Robert Hunter b. abt 1726 M 8 Nov 1757 d. 20 Feb 1800.
My 4th ggm Elizabeth Almond b. abt 1729 M. 8 Nov. 1757 d 18 Apr 1807.
Above info provided by Angela Trewick. The Parish is Handsworth St. Mary.

The problem arises when I search for the previous generation of Hunter. I would love to be able to crack the 1700 barrier for this family but search returns from Ancestry do not add to the line nor do their returns confirm the above info.

Direction suggestion or assistance would be greatly appreciated. In the meantime I will continue to work on re-familiarizing myself with the resources found here.

Thank you and I hope you all have a happy and prosperous New Year!

Jim

Re: Brick Walls

Hi Jim,

I have not looked but have you tried Family Search or FreeReg?

They just might add a little.

Stay warm........

https://www.theweathernetwork.com/ca/alerts/high-alert/ontario/ottawa

Elaine.

Instant Messenger: Skype

Re: Brick Walls

Hi Jim,

Robert Hunter, bap 11 April 1728, Hope, Dby, born Little Hucklow,
Parents - Robert and Alice.

Betty Almond, bap 10 January 1730, Sheffield Parish Church, father - Tim, cutler.

Moira.

Re: Brick Walls

Apprenticeships over to the left
Timothy Almond son of John, maltster of Attercliffe, apprenticed to Samuel Bullas, cutler of Attercliffe 8 yrs 1710. Freedom 1718.
Dave

Re: Brick Walls

Hi Jim,

Also under apprentices and freemen in the left hand column.....

Robert Hunter, son of Robert, Copley Dale, Hope, miner: to William Twigg,
scissorsmith: 8, 1740, Freedom 1790.

Robert purchased his freedom very late in life, but it did allow him
to make things under his own name.

Moira.

Re: Brick Walls

Finally received my PDF from the GRO of the birth cert for my grandmother's 2nd illegitimate child born in Wolverhampton. Everett George the father describes himself as a variety artist this time. He has been a conjurer's assistant. In Llandudno in 1903 he was a travelling entertainer; probably part of a minstrel act there, an actor too so it occurred to me that if each child was left back in Swindon with their grandparents then probably my grandmother would have been on the stage too herself under the name of Minnie Rose.
I'm just bouncing off another brick wall aren't I?
Lyn

Re: Brick Walls

Hi Lyn,

I am sure a number of years ago there used to be a Rootsweb Mailing List for old Music Hall Entertainers.

That might help.


Elaine in Ottawa.

Instant Messenger: Skype

Re: Brick Walls

Thanks Elaine - will see what I can do tomorrow.
Lyn
:hammer_and_pick: :pick:

Re: Brick Walls

Hi Lyn

This might help.

© National Fairground Archive, University of Sheffield

The National Fairground Archive at the University of Sheffield Library houses a large number of music hall and variety posters across the collections. The posters come from all over the United Kingdom and range from early pantomimic productions of the 1800s, through Music Hall and Variety to the new variety of today.

A large majority of the posters stem from the late 1800s and early 1900s. As the Victorian city grew apace, and the new middle class emerged working fewer hours with increased leisure time, so a greater number of diverse venues appeared in large urban conurbations to provide entertainment for the masses. The music halls and later, in the mid-1880s, the variety theatres that were built to meet this demand, providing employment for thousands of performers and speciality acts. These variety palaces gave homes to previously itinerant performers and quickly became the most popular venues.

Angela

Re: Brick Walls

Thanks Angela - I can see I am going to be busy. My aunt who had dementia died aged 95 last year and I once asked here how my nanan and granddad had met. She was always vague about things but simply said something about my granddad got my nanan out of some sort of trouble when people were giving her hard time. He lived on Newhall Road and of course there was the Palace theatre down there, so who knows. As the old saying goes - variety is the spice of life..........
Lyn