Hi Forum - My g.grandmother appears in the Netherthorpe 1851 Census living with her step sister Mary (age 11) & sister Elizabeth (age 6). Head and wife are John & Sarah. In 1861 Sarah Ann is living with her uncle Thomas WATSON in Crookes with Elizabeth and another niece of Thomas WATSON - Elizabeth GRAYSON.
Now a GRO birth certificate search has an Elizabeth THOMPSON born in the right year in Sheffield with mother's maiden name GRAYSON.
But when I search the GRO index for Sarah Ann or just Sarah THOMPSON I cannot get a mother's maiden name to match - the best match in Sheffield has a maiden name of BUTLER. There is a death of Sarah THOMPSON in 4Q/1845 so could John THOMPSON have married a third time?
Before I order the possible birth certificate for my g.grandmother can the Indexers suggest any other options? I have looked for such a marriage but no success.
John

PS for Elaine - best wishes to you. Sarah Ann married Arthur Dungworth HODGKINSON. We corresponded some years back about my HODGKINSON connections with your DUNGWORTH's. I also did a bit of transcribing of the 1841 Census.

Hi John,

The Sarah Thompson death reg. in 1845 was a one year old child and she was buried
at St. George's, father - George.

Sarah Ann Thompson, born 19 Sep 1847, baptised 26 December 1847 at Sheffield
Parish Church. Parents - John and Sarah, grinder.

Did they register her birth in the September quarter or the December quarter?

Moira.

John, I have just looked on FreeBMD. Between the September quarter 1847 and the
December quarter 1847, there is no birth registration for a Sarah/Sarah Ann in
the Sheffield area.

Perhaps they did not register her birth. Compulsory registration did not
start till later.

Moira.

Hi John,

Great to hear from you again.

Don't think I can give you any further answers today I am afraid.

I couldn't prove for certain who her parents where. So I left it at that. That must have been 12yrs ago. Arthur Dungworth Hodgkinson was a 1st cousin 3x removed. You can check my tree out below where it says website.

I have the marriage as taking place in Ecclesall Parish Church. Dated 9th April 1869 which if her birth year was 1846/47 doesn't match her age at death which was 42 years. That was in June of 1895. She is buried in Walkley Cemetery. If that is correct that would have made her 16yrs at the time of marriage. Levi her first born was born in 1872.
So if the marriage year is correct there could have been another child before Levi.

Moira is a very good sleuth and her comment re many births not being registered is correct.

Do you have Arthur's & Sarah Ann's marriage certificate? That will at least match her up to a family on the 1851/61 census for sure.

Will be watching to see what you turn up.

Elaine in Ottawa.:snowman:

Instant Messenger: Skype

Hi there,

Just been on to Ancestry to try and sort Sarah Ann Hodgkinson nee Thompson out.

I found there is a public Tree on there for this family and she has the Marriage taking place at St Thomas Crookes not Ecclesall.

She is also alive and on the 1911 census.

Will check this out further tomorrow.

Elaine.

Instant Messenger: Skype

Hi John and Elaine,

Yorkshire Banns Transcriptions.
St.Thomas, Crookes.
February 21 & 28, March 7, 1869.
Arthur Hodgkinson, 23, batch, file smith, of Dove House Ecclesall District.
Sara Thompson, 21, spin, of Common Side.
Married at Ecclesall, 7 April 1869.

Ecclesall Church, 7 April, 1869.
Arthur Hodgkinson, 23, batch, of Ecclesall, father - Levi Hodgkinson, File smith.
Sarah Thompson, 21, spin, of Crookes, father - John Thompson, Grinder.
Witnesses: Thomas Watson and Elizabeth King.

Moira.

Morning John & Moira,

Thanks for that info Moira helped prove she is who we thought she was.
Arthur's information is correct. He would have been 24 a few days after his marriage.

I had not heard of the Yorkshire Banns Transcriptions or if I had I had forgotten about them.

https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/county/yorkshire/banns/

John... I have removed the burial I had for Sarah at Walkley. I presume she will be in the same grave as Arthur at Ecclesall. The Dungworths came from Ecclesall by the way.
My Ecclesall burial CD only goes to about 1910 and they both died later than that.

Thanks again

Elaine.

Instant Messenger: Skype

Wow - thanks Moira and Elaine for your rapid and helpful responses.
I hadn't appreciated that there was no fine for non-registration until the mid 1870's. Strange though that John & Sarah registered Elizabeth's birth but not Sarah Ann's! By the way one witness at Sarah Ann's wedding was her sister Elizabeth - who had since married Austin KING (Indexers marriage records). The other witness Thomas WATSON was an illiterate farmer as his witness signature of the marriage is by his mark.
Thomas WATSON was obviously a significant family benefactor looking after 3 nieces in 1861. My grandfather was christened Watson HODGKINSON presumably in his honour and Watson appears as a second name in the next generation. I cannot confirm the family connection as yet but likely to be via his wife Elizabeth? Could the Yorkshire Banns transcriptions give the answer?
Also maybe there is an entry for John THOMPSON's marriage to Sarah GRAYSON? I think this is BMD reference Sheffield 3Q/1843 Vol 22 Pg 386 and I will send for a GRO certificate if there is no banns transcription.
This has re-ignited my family history enthusiasm - so many thanks again ladies.
John

Sheffield Parish Church.
Marriage, 13 July 1843.
John Thompson, 27, Widower, Shearsth of Broad Lane, father - Jas. Thompson, Grinder.
Sarah Grayson, 24, Spinster, of Moorfields, father - Josh. Grayson, File smth.

1911 census - 66a Barber Road, Sheffield, Ecclesall.
Arthur D. Hodgkinson, head, mar, 55yrs, File hardener.
Sarah A. Hodgkinson, wife, 63yrs.
Gertrude E. Hodgkinson, daug, 36yrs.
Annis Hodgkinson, daug, 28yrs, Milliner.
Elsie M. Hodgkinson, 23yrs, General merchants clerk.
Gordon W. Hodgkinson, Grand child, 5yrs. All born Sheffield.
Married 42years, 11 children born, 6 living, 5 died.

Arthur Dungworth Hodgkinson aged 68yrs of 66a Barber Road, buried 24 March 1913
All Saints, Ecclesall.
Sarah Ann Hodgkinson aged 90yrs of 205 Crookes Valley Road, buried 27 June 1938
All Saints, Ecclesall.

1871 census - 45 Sydney Road, Sheffield, Nether Hallam.
Thomas Watson, 52yrs, Retired cow keeper, Wadsley, Yks. Blind.
Elizabeth Watson,wife, 59yrs, Sheffield.
William Watson, father, 77yrs, widower, Late farm labourer, Mortemley, Yks.
Thomas Watson King, Grand nephew, 3yrs, Crookes, Yks.
Arthur Dungworth, Boarder, 11yrs, Scholar, Crookes, Yks.
James Hodgkinson, Nephew, 25yrs, File cutter, Ecclesall, Yks.
Sarah Ann Hodgkinson, Niece, 23yrs, Sheffield.
Mary Hodgkinson, Grand niece, 7months, Sheffield.
Minnie Thompson, Niece, 17yrs, Servant, Sheffield.
I have included this census as it has quite a lot of information.
On the 1901 census, Arthur appears to be under the name John. The family are
living at ct1 Elliott Road, Sheffield. Along with 'John' there is wife Sarah,
children..Gertrude, Thomas, Watson, Annis, Sarah and Elsie M. On the 1871 census,
is James really Arthur?

Moira.

Many thanks Moira.

Yes Moira - Arthur is listed as John in 1901 - not sure why.

...and James in 1871!