Sheffield Indexers

Welcome to our forum ~ please post your questions below.

Sheffield Indexers
Start a New Topic 
Author
Comment
View Entire Thread
Re: Harold Clarke

Morning Anne,

It looks from Moira's findings that we have two possible Harold Clarkes to confuse us.

Your friend should know her grandmothers name that might help.
Check for their marriage on FreeBMD.

The reason for NOT finding his WW1 records could be that they are part of the BURNT Docs problem. Something like 60% of WW1 Docs were lost during a bombing raid in WW2.

Elaine in Ottawa.

Instant Messenger: Skype

Re: Harold Clarke

Hi Elaine and Anne,

I am a bit concerned about the Ancestry entry.

On the 1939 register that I found for Harold, Ada, Winifred and Jessie,
Harold's date of birth is 26th January 1897, which is also the date Anne provided.

The birth registrations for Winifred and Jessie gives the mothers maiden name
as Walker.

Holy Trinity Church, Darnall, Sheffield, 9 June 1919.
Harold Clarke, 22, miner of 8 Plowman Street, father - Edwin Clarke, miner.
Ada Walker, 20, of 7 Alave Street, Attercliffe, father - Alfred Walker, Labourer.

1911 census - 138 Century Road, Sheffield.
Edwin Clarke, head, mar, 42yrs, miners labourer, born Darnall, Shffield.
Elizabeth,Clarke, wife, 39yrs.
Harold Clarke, son, 14yrs, Apprentice (wire rope maker).
Other children are: Alice 16, Doris 11, Harry 9, Cyril 7 and Minnie 1.

On the 1901 census, Edwin Clarke gives his place of birth as Foleshill, Coventry.

Moira.



Re: Harold Clarke

Anne, what other details do you have about Harold's ww1service please? Do you know the regiment? Did he travel abroad? Was he injured?, was he captured? Did he volunteer or was he conscripted? Did he have medals? Which ones?
Any small detail may help. There were a lot of Harold Clarkes in Ww1.
Dave

Re: Harold Clarke

No info whatsoever of his war years I have seen the tree by Mike Jones that is my friends husband & she only has that picture & knows he was in the 1st WW he died in 1955 that must be before they wed I think

Re: Harold Clarke

Grandmothers name was Ada Bostwick Walker

Re: Harold Clarke

Anne, if I understand this correctly you have access to a photo of Harold in his Ww 1 uniform. That may contain a vital clue
If you send me a copy I shall publish it here and see if anyone recognises the uniform/ badges etc.
For your info, as Elaine has said, 2 thirds of Ww1 army servicemen's records were lost in a Ww2 bombing, so there is only a one in 3 chance that his survived. If he was wounded there will be pension records. If he was captured, there will be records with the Red Cross.
One thing is certain, everyone who served will have a medal card and with a couple of clues we may be able to find his.
Also, he must have been entitled to at least one medal. Does a family member have his medals?
There are a couple of possible medal cards which I have identified but we need a clue from that photo.
Dave

Re: Harold Clarke

I have just looked on FreeBMD for the marriage and there seems to be an error re the page number.

The marriage took place in Sheffield 9c 241 as per the GRO index. June qtr 1919

However Ada was missing from FreeBMD. I searched for her alone and came up with
June 1919 in Sheffield 9c 1241.

The entry for Harold I believe refers to Pontefract though it does say Sheffield.

The page number is certainly skewing the entry.

I would certainly use Sheffield 9c 1241. That is if you are interested in having a document to prove the family line. Certainly at this early stage of your research I would advise you to obtain it. Wrong father will throw everything out of kilter.

Elaine in Ottawa.

Instant Messenger: Skype

Re: Harold Clarke

The birth registration for Ada Bostwick Walker is in Q2 1899, Sheffield.

St. Thomas, Brightside, Sheffield.
Ada Walker, born 28 March 1899, bap 19 April 1899.
Parents - Alfred Bostwick and Rose, fireman, of 12H 12C Upwell Street, Sheffield.

On the marriage I found in 1919, one of the witnesses was Doris Clarke,
who I believe is Harold's sister, the other witness was Alfred Walker.

Moira.

Re: Harold Clarke

I forgot to add, that the date of birth for Ada matches the one on
the 1939 register.

Moira.

Re: Harold Clarke

SASC (Small Arms School Corps) is on the uniform he was a dispatch motorbike driver in France I also have the photo how do I upload it onto here many thanks

Re: Harold Clarke

Anne, you cannot post directly. If you put it on Dropbox you can then post the link here. Alternatively send it to me (email below) and I shall do it for you.
Dave

Re: Harold Clarke

Dave T it wont let me open your Email :grin:

Re: Harold Clarke


Anne, I have opened yours and sent you an email, you can send it by reply to that
Dave

Re: Harold Clarke

Morning Anne,

Interesting reading re the the SASC.

Apparently formed in 1854 and called the School of Musketry at that time. It retained that name until 1919 when its names was changed to the Small Arms School and was associated with the MGC at it training center in Grantham Lincs. Also by the BEF in Wisquies in France. SASC School moved from Hythe to Worminster which is still its home base.

This website might have records to enable you to find his army number.

https://www.sasc-pastandpresent.com/

My grandfather was in the Machine Gun Corps and I was unable to find his records until very recently. Harolds records may turn up if they are still working on those (burnt docs). More like soggy docs.:smile:

Hope this helps.

Elaine in Ottawa.

Instant Messenger: Skype

Re: Harold Clarke

Here is the link to Anne's picture

https://www.dropbox.com/s/a78wx2n23c5jn1r/24957057_10157070294199569_123905074_o.jpg?dl=0

Anne, please tell us what makes you think it is SASC

Is there anything written on the back?

The fact info that he was a motorcyclist would point to the ASC, not the SASC.
Dave

Re: Harold Clarke

Sent the picture Dave thank you

Re: Harold Clarke

she said she could make out the letters on the uniform

Re: Harold Clarke

Hi Anne/Dave,

The photo is not clear enough to see his cap badge.

Anne have you tried Clarke without the 'e' on Ancestry

or even just H. or Harry.????

Did we settle who his parents were as his attestation papers (if found) would have his next of kin on them. (Edwin & Elizabeth)

I think he married in 1919 so after the war was over. Mind you I suppose some troops stayed behind to sort things out.

Elaine.

PS. THis site shows the cap badge.

https://www.forces-war-records.co.uk/units/375/small-arms-school-corps/

Sorry about that was getting the error message. I have changed the site for you to see the cap badge.

Instant Messenger: Skype

Re: Harold Clarke

yes Elaine tried without the E

Re: Harold Clarke

Anne, the picture is not clear enough to be sure about the badges. If someone can make out the letters ASC then I would suggest it is more likely to be ASC.
The term SASC did not come into existence till after the war. I have looked at several ASC photos and it is a definite possibility.
Do you have the original photo?
Can you provide a hi res photo, in focus, of the cap badge and shoulder badge?
Dave

Re: Harold Clarke

all this & it is WW2 :weary:

Re: Harold Clarke

Hi Anne.

Not sure what you mean but

I am sure thats a WW1 photo.

Did they wear those leg wrappings in WW2.??????

Harold born in 1897 would have been too old to serve? in WW2 wouldn't he???

Elaine.

Instant Messenger: Skype

Re: Harold Clarke

Anne,
In addition to the photo you have told us that Harold was a dispatch rider on a motor bike. If that is true then he would have been in the ASC (Army Service Corps). Not only that, because he was part of Motorised transport, his regimental number would have begun with an M.
There is a Ww1 medal card for Harold Clarke in the ASC with the regimental number M2/192427. ( note that in Ancestry this has been Mis transcribed as M2/1924207).
By studying other people with similar numbers close to this it is possible to interpolate that this Harold enlisted in October/November 1915 and may have travelled to France as late as January 1918. I believe he is the man you are looking for.
With regard to the comment about the SASC (Small Arms School Corps). This small group was originally the School of Musketry and only became known as the Small Arms School in 1919, and it was 1929 before it became known as the SASC.
In your photo Harold is wearing puttees and taped leggings typical of the motorised section of the ASC in Ww1.
For confirmation you need to try to read the letters on the epaulettes (expect ASC or RASC the R is for Royal) and the cap badge
Dave



Re: Harold Clarke

Hi Im sorry peeps she was getting mixed up with her father & grandfather he was also in the Army all the info was referring to her father no wonder we have brain freeze, grandfather Harold Clarke was in the army but no ideas other than that
Thank You too you all

Re: Harold Clarke

Anne, are you saying that photo is Ww2 and is not of Harold Clarke born 1897?
Dave

Re: Harold Clarke

No Dave its still Harold WW1 then she shared her fathers photo different one her father was in ASC don't worry about it Dave Thank you for trying