G'day

I think these 2 are buried in Fulwood Cemetery and I can't find their burial places.

Percy b abt 1863 - if anyone has a birth record for him that would be marvellous please.

Edith Barnsley b 1868 and no birth record for her but going of Census records. A birth record for her would be marvellous too.

Percy died 1935 and I have no idea when Edith died. A few Allen and Barnsley clan members are in Fulwood which is why I think these 2 are in there, plus my family has found a headstone for Allen and not sure if it's one of ours.

cheers

Hi Leisa
According to the census, Percy's parents are William and Jane Allen.
There is a marriage for a William Allen and Jane Croft at Christ Church,Heeley on 26 July 1865. If this is correct,then Percy was born before the wedding.
There is a birth registration for
Percy Edwin CROFTS Jun 1863 Ecclesall B 9c 252

Hope this help
Sue

Hi
Edith Barnsley Dec 1868 Ecclesall B 9c 247

I am going to email you a couple of newspaper articles.
One details Percy and Edith's silver wedding anniversary.
Edith death is also announced in 1930 in the Sheffied Daily Telegraph. She died in Hampton Hill which I think is near London. The only death registration that seems to match is
Edith Allen Sep 1930 Brentford 3a 87

Sue

Hi Leisa,

Edith Barnsley, daughter of Joseph and Emma, of Oxford Street, manufacturer.
Born 13 Oct 1868, Bap. 24 Oct 1869. Sheffield Cathedral.

Moira.

Hi.

Their marriage is on FindMyPast along with the certificate image.

14 Oct 1889 at Heeley Christ Church.

Percy Edwin ALLEN aged 26, Bachelor, Manager of East Bank Road. Father; William ALLEN also a Manager.
Edith BARNSLEY aged 21 a Spinster of East Bank Rd. Father; Joseph BARNSLEY a Steel Manufacturer.
Both signed...Witnesses Henry BARNSLEY and Caroline JACKSON>


Angela

G'day

That is not my Percy - mother is Jane Harrop b1837 according to my efforts.

cheers

Leisa

Are you saying that the marriage is the wrong one as I cannot find another for these two people.

Do you have his birth certificate to confirm his mother's name?

There is no birth registration for Percy Edwin ALLEN but in 1863 there is a birth registration for Percy Edwin CROFTS in Ecclesall Bierlow with no mother's maiden name given, which would suggest that no father is named on the birth certificate.

I have come to the same conclusion as Suesi that William ALLEN and Jane CROFT are his parents. I cannot find a marriage of William ALLEN to Jane HARROP.

The 1871 census places them at Alexandra Road, Heeley RG10 Piece 4675 Folio 109 page 17.
William Allen Head - Male 27 1844 - Sheffield Yorkshire,
Jane Allen Wife - Female 30 1841 - Sheffield Yorkshire,
Percy Ed Allen Son - Male 8 1863 - Sheffield

Angela

Angela,
if Percy Crofts was born illegitimate in mid 1863 and his mother Jane Croft(s) was at least 22 and probably 23 at the time, should there be a bastardy order somewhere?
Dave

Hi Dave

Not necessarily, it would all depend on whether Jane tried to claim from the father. It could be that William ALLEN was his father as Percy adopted his name.

The Sheffield Petty Sessions we are transcribing only exist from 1882.

"Though Sheffield was not granted its own Court of Quarter Sessions until 1880, a separate Commission of the Peace was granted in 1848. Unfortunately, the early registers for this period do not appear to have survived."

Angela

Angela,
My understanding of bastardy bonds is that they did not depend on whether the mother wanted to claim from the father. If an unmarried woman (that is a female of at least 21 yrs of age) had an illegitimate child then the overseers stepped in because that child was likely to become chargeable to them. Therefore they do everything to find the father. They carry out a bastardy examination to find the father and issue him with an order to pay the parish. It does not matter what the woman wants to do. The overseers then pass payment on to the mother only if she looks after the child.
Incidentally if the female is under 21 then the child is judged to be the financial responsibility of her father and no bastardy examination need be made.
In this case the child was born two years before she married Allen, so the overseers should have carried out a bastardy examination very shortly after the birth.
I do have an example of a bastardy bond being issued and then curtailed with the statement "married the woman".
I have a second example where the woman was examined and stated that she was unable to identify the father (and gave a very detailed description of how she met him very briefly).
Dave

Hi Dave.

By 1863, she could probably look after herself. The overseers of the poor were replaced by the workhouse guardians after 1834, but if the wasn't reliant on the workhouse then there would be no reason to involve them.

Angela

Angela, thanks. Once more I learn from you
Dave

Thank you to everyone who contributed