Sheffield Indexers

Welcome to our forum ~ please post your questions below.

Sheffield Indexers
Start a New Topic 
Author
Comment
View Entire Thread
Re: Look up

Dave

I have my grandmother's death certificate from 1978 and it does ask "date and place of birth"

I'm not sure when this was started but I thought it was after 1969 when they started entering the birth date in the death index.

Angela

Re: Look up

This is the information from the GRO website.

The details contained on a death certificate include: •Name, date and place of death.
•Date and place of birth (before 1969 a certificate only showed age of deceased).
•Occupation and usual address.
•Cause of death.
•The person who gave information for the death registration.

Angela

Re: Look up

Angela, thank you. Once more you educate me. And Thomas died in 1969 so just in time
Ann, the Thomas Ward born in 1907 in Coventry had mother's maiden name Jackson. I cannot find a marriage anywhere of a Job Ward to a Jackson. How do you know that the Thomas Ward whose death cert you have was actually your grandfather?
Please tell us what you find in the birth cert of Thomas Ward born 1907 in Coventry
Dave

Re: Look up

Dave.

You're welcome.

There is a marriage at St Annes Netherthorpe 5 Feb 1905.
Benjamin WARD aged 21 a Bachelor. Revet Maker of 167 Hoyle Street Father: Thomas WARD (deceased)
Alice JACKSON aged 18 a Spinster of 167 Hoyle St. Father: William Henry JACKSON (deceased.

I think we need to find them in 1911 with a son called Thomas born I Coventry.

Angela

Re: Look up

Hi Dave and Angela , thanks for the information you have supplied. I'm very grateful.
In your question about the death certificate Dave, it was passed down to me when my mother passed which got passed to my dad when Thomas died.
I'm going to order both marriage and birth certs some time next week. I will let you know what I find out
Thanks again for all your help
Regards
Ann

Re: Look up

Ann.

I have emailed you

Angela

Re: Look up

Hi Angela, I've sent you a reply via e-mail. Thank you
Kindest regards
Ann

Re: Look up

Hi Ann

I have been looking at the 1939 register did your father have a brother Stanley D WARD?

Angela

Re: Look up

Hi Angela, yes he did.
Ann

Re: Look up

Ann and Angela,
Something here is very strange.
We have clear evidence that grandfather Thomas named his father as Job, a blacksmith.
We have clear evidence that Thos was born in Coventry.
There was a Thos born q1 1907 Coventry, mmn Jackson. Benjamin Ward married Alice Jackson Sheffield 1905
In 1911 we have Job Ward Blacksmith married to Elizabeth (formerly Ashmore, nee Selby) and they have a son Thos born 1907.
There is no birth reg for Thos with mmn Selby (or Ashmore) anywhere in the country.at that time
Job married Elizabeth mid 1907 Sheffield, well after Thomas was born. No sign of an illegitimate Ashmore or Selby.
Elizabeth was rather old to have given birth in 1907. There were no living children from her first marriage ( I believe there was one birth but died within a few months).
Going back through the censuses Job was living with Elizabeth and her husband Charlie Ashmore for many years. Charlie died 1906
I wonder if their "son " Thomas was actually an "adoption" of Job's nephew. Does that explain the confusion?
Obviously if Thomas is found in 1911 with Benjamin and Alice then that is blown out of the water
Dave

Re: Look up

Hi Dave, to be honest I was thinking the same thing about Thomas being adopted by job, apparently Alice came back to Sheffield sometime before 1911 and left Thomas and Benjamin in Coventry and remarried in 1914. As far as I know there are no records of them in the 1911 census. I also have some information that Ben died in 1912, aged 30 in a mining accident in Yorkshire, the mine was called cadeby mine, it says that there was a gas explosion followed by a fire, 88 killed.
So this could be a possibility, I'm going to buy the birth certificate and then I will know for definite who the parents were.
Regards
Ann

Re: Look up

Ann, are you saying Alice married bigamously in 1914?
Dave

Re: Look up

Hi Dave, she could have been widowed? As I said in my previous post a Ben Ward was killed in 1912 so it's a possibility that this is the same Benjamin? I just need to find out when and where he died? Then it will become much clearer.

Ann

Re: Look up

Ann, according to GRO 30 yr old Benjamin Ward died q3 Doncasrter 1912. This all seems to fit with Job and Elizabeth adopting Thomas. You need a few certificates to finally sort it out.
Dave

Re: Look up

Hi Dave, thanks for the information. Yes it does tie in with the time line. Like I've said, I'm going to get the certificates soon.
Regards
Ann

Re: Look up

I have found a burial at Denaby Main for Benjamin Ward aged 30..In the outside column of the entry it states killed as it does with all the others on that page....was there a pit disaster at Denaby in 1912?

There's roughly 30 deaths all killed on the 9 July.

edit: There's newspaper reports of the tragedy, I am just going through them. They state that 75 were killed including the rescue party by a second explosion

http://conisbroughanddenabyhistory.org.uk/article/cadeby-pit-disaster-1912-the-story/
Angela

Re: Look up

Hi Anne,

In the Sheffield Daily Telegraph, 1912, there is a list of the miners
killed in the colliery at Cadeby. One of them is Ben Ward, 1 Tickhill St,
Denaby.

1911 census, 1 Tick St., Denaby Main, Rotherham.
Benjamin Ward aged 29, born Methley, Yorkshire.
He is with his wife Mary Ellen and daughters Mary Ellen and Lily May.
I don't think this Ben is yours.

Re: Alice Ward nee Jackson.
On the 1911 census, Fir Vale Hospital, Sheffield.
There is an Alice Ward, patient, 24yrs, married 6 years,
1 child born alive, 1 child still living.
Is this Benjamin's wife?

Moira.

Re: Look up

Ann, sorry, forgot to add, like Angela, I also saw the entry for John T. ward
and Stanley D. Ward on the 1939 register.
On FreeBMD both have the mother's maiden name of Beresford.

Moira.

Re: Look up

Ann, it looks like Moira (brilliant) has cracked it wide open. Alice Ward suffers severe post natal depression and is sent to asylum. Benjamin's choice is to put Thomas into workhouse or find someone to take him. Who better than his childless older brother with his new wife.
You should be able to get details of Alice's admission and eventual fate from Sheff Archives. As long as Alice remained alive in the asylum, Benjamin could not marry again.
Dave

Re: Look up

Ann, according to Free BMD Thomas Ward married Joyce Wallace in q4 1957 in Sheffield 2d 373. I wonder who he named as his father? I guess that is another cert you need. There are several possible deaths for Lily Ward between 1940 and 1950
Dave

Re: Look up

hi,Angela, Moira and Dave, thanks for all the information you have found.
yes the Alice mentioned being put in an Asylum was Ben's wife so Dave it could be right about her suffering with post natal depression and like you said about him giving tom to job would have been better than going into the workhouse. i knew Thomas had remarried but didn't know Joyce's surname so thanks for that information. in the question to whom he named as his father? i will have to get the marriage cert to find out. Angela did you find any more info about who died in the mine disaster?

Re: Look up

Hi Moira thanks for the info about Alice. Yes it's the one I was looking for. It seems that like Dave T commented about her suffering from post natal depression could be right. She left Thomas and Benjamin in Coventry and moved back to Sheffield and on the subject about Ben dying, well I still don't know what happened to him but I've managed to obtain a copy of Thomas's marriage certificate and he named job as his father so it is more than likely that job and Elizabeth adopted him. I'm going to order his birth certificate soon and it should confirm whom his dad was.
Regards
Ann

Re: Look up

Hi Dave, it seems that the theory about job and Elizabeth adopting Thomas could be right, I've managed to obtain a copy of his marriage certificate and he named job as his father. So the information about Alice being in a asylum and suffering from post natal depression could be right. all I need to do now is to find out where and when Ben died .Thanks for all your help.
Regards
Ann

Re: Look up

Hi Angela, thanks for all your help.
Did you manage to find Ben on the list of men killed in that mining accident? It looks like Thomas was adopted by job because he named him on the marriage certificate.
Regards
Ann

Re: Look up

Ann, Moira has already given you significant information on the Ben Ward who died in the colliery disaster. He was definitely not yours because he was married with several children, and he was born in Methley
Dave

Re: Look up

Ann, it will be difficult to identify Benjamin unless he re married. He could not do that while Alice his wife was alive. Therefore you need to find what happened to Alice. The first place to look for that would be asylum records at Sheff Archives.
There is a possible death for Benjamin in Birmingham in 1936 age 53, but the certificate for that will almost certainly not confirm anything.
There is alsio a possibility that Benjamin left the country.
Dave

Re: Look up

Hi Dave, thanks for your information, I guessed that the Benjamin, Moira mentioned wasn't the one I was looking for.
Im going to keep looking for any info on Alice and Benjamin. I will go to the Sheffield archives and look into what happened to Alice. Thanks for all the information you've supplied
Regards
Ann