I've had the same problems. There's nothing certain for John Martin in the census until 1861 when he's living with his wife and son. Whereas the John Pass from the 1851 census is still living with his father William etc in 1861.

I'll try sending for John Martin's birth certificate and see if that provides more information.

Have you any suggestions as to what the Erw Hill on the baptism record could be? I assume the writing was so bad that ERW Hill was the best that could be made out

Thanks
Karen

Just to add from the Sheffield Council Site.

District: Sheffield Park
Birth - 5/49
Details: John Martin PASS - 01/01/1841

Sheffield Park being the right area for the Baptism in 1847.

Checking the birth cert I would say is the next step.

Elaine in Ottawa.

Just read your last message and I was the one who transcribed St John's and I can tell you what with the terrible writing and faded pages they were rather difficult to read. That certificate is the next step for you.

John married Caroline Ellison Dec qtr 1859 and they are together up to at least 1901 when he was living with his son John William which make me wonder about the William & Mary Pass in 1851.

Elaine.

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THANKS FOR THE INFO FROM THE COUNCIL SITE

KAREN

Hi

The marriage certificate is on FMP and the father's name and occupation for John Martin PASS is blank....which indicates that he was illegitimate.

Sheffield Parish Church SS Peter & Paul. 29 Nov 1859. John Martin PASS aged 18 a Bachelor. Occupation Edge Tool Striker.

Caroline ELLISON aged 17 a Spinster of Park. Father: Alfred ELLISON a File Hardner. Both made their mark "X"

Winessses: Edward Smith and Harriet Wigfall.

That is probably why there is no mother's maiden name on the birth index as he is already registered with her surname.

Angela

The GRO site shows John Martin Pass birth as 1841 no mothers maiden is given which makes me think he was illegitimate. The baptism in 1847 could mean he was 6 years old which isn't unusual.

Hi

Thanks for the info on the marriage certificate- that's really helpful

Karen

Elaine, Are you still able to view the original of the 1847 baptism of John Martin? What does the note about Godparents mean please?
Are George and Sarah the parents or the godparents?
There is a very confusing Pass family in St Johns on the 1851 census. (Search Hannah Pass born 1789 to find it).
Hannah (widow, 62) has a son Martin (17), a daughter Sarah Conquest (30) with her husband George Conquest(32). They married in 1844 and they remained childless in later censuses. Other people in the household are a widowed daughter Emma Shaw and her son Martin Shaw and 2 more grandchildren of Hannah, Harriet Pass, 14 and John Pass 2. Strangely, this John is said to be a scholar (at 2 years old?)
Also a Martin Pass age 52 died in the area in Q4 1842, presumably Hannah's husband.
I am wondering if John Martin was illegitimate son of Sarah who married Goerge Conquest in 1844 then they "adopted" him by baptism in 1847.

Is that a long shot too far?
Dave

Thanks Dave T

It's an interesting idea

Hi

This is the information from the CONQUEST/PASS marriage.

29 Oct 1844. Sheffield Parish Church SS Peter & Paul.

George CONQUEST aged 24 a bachelor, Labourer of South St, Park Father: John CONQUEST a Hatter.
Sarah PASS aged 21 a spinster of South St, Park. Father: Martin PASS.Cutler
George signed and Sarah made her mark "X"

Witnesses Joseph STOKES and J.Hudson. the latter being a clerk at the church and signed as witness on numerous certificates.

It looks increasingly likely that Dave has hit the nail on the head, with the 1851 census. The birth certificate has to be the next step.

Angela

Martin PASS aged 52 of Park, South Street was buried at St George, Portobello, 5 December 1842.

Angela

THANKS FOR ALL YOUR HELP

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Hi Karen
Caroline's father, Alfred Ellison, was my 3xg grandfather. Her mother was Harriet (nee Mappin). Alfred and Harriet had around ten children. My 2xg grandmother Sarah, was Caroline's younger sister. Just a bit more for your family tree! Deb

Hi Deborah,

Thanks for this info. I have some census(1841 and 1851) and trade directory information(when Alfred was a licenced victualler) for the Ellison's but I didn't know Harriet's Maiden name!

Karen