Looks like I've been barking up the wrong tree! :(

There are at least two Joseph HOUGHs kicking around the Felkirk area. One from Havercrcroft who died in 1792, and another who married Lydia SHARP in Felkirk in 1797 who I thought was the mother of Charles HOUGH. However, Lydia died in 1799 long before Charles was born around 1807.

Looks like I need to find a Lydia of unknown surname who married a HOUGH and was living in the Wortley area around the time of Charles' birth.

I shall try and have a look later to see what I can find for you. Do not apologise for barking up the wrong tree. We have all done it. At least you notified us though so we can focus on a new line. John

Peter
What about the marriage of Philip Huff to Lydia Coe in Tankersley on 02 February 1806- om familysearch.org ?.
Kind regards Brian.

Thanks for the encouragement folks, and the tip especially Brian.

There is a baptism on Ancestry for Lydia COE 9 Nov 1766 in Nether Hoyland which fits with the 1841 and 1851 Census birth timeframe.

While its not Wath upon Dearne its a least getting closer (maybe she meant Wath Road, Elsecar!- if anyone can have a look at the handwriting on the 1851 Census form for Lydia HOUGH in Wortley HO 107/2334 and can see something different I'd love to know).

If it is her, then she would have been a mature bride for the time (41) but the birth of Charles HOUGH in 1807 would fit nicely. (Plus one of Charles' sons is called Phillip, which doesn't seem to have been too common at the time) Its just a pain that I can't find a birth for Charles!

Edit: just saw the reference to the Ancient parish of Wath Upon Dearne on GENUKI, and it seems that Hoyland was part of that Parish, so it seems to fit even better.

From the Familysearch baptism entries it looks like Phillip might have been married previously with children born in 1794 (John), 1797 (Ann), 1799 (Benjamin) and 1804 (Sampson) before the marriage in 1806. Then there is David b 1811. Unless he just took a while to get around to tying the knot!

Odd that there are two sets of the same 5 children's records, one labelled Wortley (near Barnsley) and one Wortley by Penistone. I'm presuming they are duplicates.

Edit: Although I've now found a marriage on Familysearch for Phillip HUFF to Lydia SHEPHERD at Tankersley 8 Jul 1793! Surely it couldn't be the same man, marrying two Lydias in succession!

It could be that there are two Philip Huffs though who are perhaps cousins. My other concern is Lydia Coe - could the Lydia Coe baptism you found for 1766 be the mother of Lydia Coe that married in 1806

Peter/John
I only had a quick glance at the familysearch.org site,as I had my sons over,but I must say there's alot to think about.
The Lydia thing is a bit of an issue.
I reckon John will have his thinking cap on,and other's including me also.
Kind regards Brian.

Peter
The 1851 census entry (piece 2334,Folio 77,page 28 )-for Lydia Hough b 1865- has Wortley crossed out as place of birth,and Wath wrote in at the side.
I see Lydia is a widow- inreceipt of Parish relief,with hewr granddaughter- Mary Hough b 1834 Wortley.
Interestingly on the 1841- piece 1325,folio 16/33,page 17
Kind regar

Peter
I explorer playing up- on the 1841 Charles Hough and wife mary and family show,as does Lydia Hough his mother,with granddaughter Mary Hough- on the same transcription view.
I think this lends weight to the Lydia Coe Marriage on 2 February 1806- Tankersley.,given Lydia Coes dob.
I would love to know how the other marriage of a philip Huff to a Lydia Shephered fits in ?,on 08/July 1793- Tankersley.
Kind regards Brian.

Brian, what if Lydia Coe baptised 1766 had Lydia Coe out of wedlock - Lydia Coe (1766) married a Mr Shepherd who then subsequently died. In 1793 Lydia Shepherd married a Philip Huff and of course he could have had a son called Philip from a previous marriage and it was that Philip that married Lydia Coe (jnr) in 1806. No doubt you are going to say. NO WAY!!!!!!!!!!! John

John
It all sounds a bit too complicated,I would love Angela T's take on the issue ?.
Kind regards Brian.

Now my head's spinning!

I've ordered Lydia HOUGH's death certificate (Mar Q 1856 Wortley 9c 99) which might at least confirm she was married to one of the Phillip HOUGHs.

I'm moving to the conclusion that maybe Charles was adopted, as several hours of searching across a number of sites has failed to find a birth for him. I don't suppose such records are kept anywhere?

Have you looked for a baptism for Charles (the Lydia's maiden name) could be Charles was born out of wedlock and took up the name Hough when Lydia married Philip. John

Yes, have tried both Charles COE and Charles SHEPHERD but nothing on Familysearch or Ancestry, nor on the Wortley baptisms on this site.

I've now got Charles HOUGH's death certificate. He died at Wortley 11 May 1867 aged 64 years, from "softening of the brain, paralysed'. The person who was the informant looks like he might have been the doctor, and ther's no mention of a wife. If this is the right chap then it puts his birth back to about 1802, five years earlier than the 1851 census would suggest.

Got the death certificate for Lydia HOUGH today. She died 18 January 1856 at Wortley, aged 89 years (so the Lydia COE baptised 9 Nov 1766 mentioned above would be spot on). She died from "decay of nature" (which I think I have too!) and is the widow of Philip HOUGH.

Charles HOUGH was present at the death.

I think the best explanation goes like this: Charles was born around 1802, before they were married, although we can't find a baptism. They married in Tankersley on 2 Feb 1806. Charles may have started using his father's name after the marriage (I've found a similar situation with another branch of the family). It also means she was 36, rather than 42, when Charles was born, so I think we can rule out the mother or grandmother complication.

I'm still not totally comfortable with where if anywhere the Philip HUFF/Lydia SHEPHERD marriage fits in, but I'll keep digging!

The age Discrepancy for Charles Hough's birth might have been to mke his birth date fit in to - after the 1806 marrage date,rather than have him show as born out of wedlock.
Kind regards Brian.

Does the death certificate say where in Wortley Charles Hough died? I also wonder if they took his age on the census from the date he was baptised (was this after 1806?) Is it possible that he left a will? Like you still trying to fit in the Philip Hough to Lydia Shepherd marriage. Time to get the scrap paper out and do a rough drawing of your tree to see if it makes it easier to solve. John

John there was nothing on death certificate except Wortley

I've done some more digging on Familysearch, and some thinking...

It seems there were a number of children born to an apparently single Lydia COE. These were all christened COE at Wortley (no mention of father):

George 1790, Mary 1792, Martha 1794, Joseph 1798, Elizabeth 1803.

At more or less the same time, also in Wortley, Philip HOUGH or HAUGH had the following children (no mention of mother):

John 1794, Ann 1797, Benjamin 1799, Sampson 1804, David 1811.

I think that means that there were definitely two families. Perhaps the ones to which Philip laid a claim were those from his marriage to Lydia SHEPHERD in Tankersley on 8 July 1793.

The children that Lydia COE had could have been to
(a) an unknown father
(b) the Philip HOUGH she later married at Tankersley on 2 Feb 1806, who may or may not have been the same Philip HOUGH who had earlier married Lydia SHEPHERD. Perhaps Lydia COE was his mistress? Perhaps they married after Lydia HOUGH nee SHEPHERD's early death, some time before 1806? (and therefore all of the children born after this were in fact Lydia COE's children). Or it could have been a totally different Philip HOUGH she married?

Unfortunately, without any definitive supporting info that's as far as I can go. None of the Philip HOUGHs (if in fact there was two of them) appear to have survived to the 1841 Census. Nor can I find a death of a Lydia HOUGH (nee SHEPHERD) to support the "one Philip HOUGH" theory.